Continuation Part 11: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Supercalifragilistic]

Don't fret it. In any case, your supercilious yammering is not nearly important enough for Senator Cantwell to give a moment of her time.

Senator Cantwell, who she? I can only deduce from the context that she must be some kind of projected back-up saviour in case the appeal to the ECHR is declared inadmissible. Actually some 97%+ of applications to the ECHR from Italy were deemed inadmissible in 2013, which strongly suggests that it is overwhelmingly used as a last-ditch, final resort for hopeless defence teams who want to appear to their clients to be doing something, anything.

So it seems to be Plan (A) ECHR, Plan (B) Mrs Cantwell. Both forlorn hopes, all you daydream believers!

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

The thing is that Amanda will remain free, giving Italy a black eye over and over again until the reputation of Italy as far as their legal system is in tatters. Might even get to the point where other EU nations will no longer fast track extraditions to Italy.

 

[Desert Fox]

HoRseRAdish !

You are taking a prosecution strawman and projecting on the defense side.
You are on a skeptical board and do not expect to be called out on it.

 

[Desert Fox]

Senator Cantwell, who she? I can only deduce from the context that she must be some kind of projected back-up saviour in case the appeal to the ECHR is declared inadmissible. Actually some 97%+ of applications to the ECHR from Italy were deemed inadmissible in 2013, which strongly suggests that it is overwhelmingly used as a last-ditch, final resort for hopeless defence teams who want to appear to their clients be doing something, anything.

So it seems to be Plan (A) ECHR, Plan (B) Mrs Cantwell. Both forlorn hopes, all you daydream believers!

Not really that hard. . . .Ms Cantwell is a senator from Washington State and Ms Knox's representative. She can put energy to making sure that the department of state never approves any extradition requests. Seattle is also not some little Podunk town such as Perugia. . . . Ever heard of Microsoft or Boeing?

Going on with my previous post, Perugia has already become a ghost town as far as foreign students because of what has occurred.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

McDaniel case

Diocletus,

Nice find. I liked this part: "The luminol tests were not performed according to accepted standards...Most importantly, confirmatory tests were not performed to determine whether the "glow" was caused by human blood or something else."

 

[js202]

Senator Cantwell, who she? I can only deduce from the context that she must be some kind of projected back-up saviour in case the appeal to the ECHR is declared inadmissible. Actually some 97%+ of applications to the ECHR from Italy were deemed inadmissible in 2013, which strongly suggests that it is overwhelmingly used as a last-ditch, final resort for hopeless defence teams who want to appear to their clients be doing something, anything.

So it seems to be Plan (A) ECHR, Plan (B) Mrs Cantwell. Both forlorn hopes, all you daydream believers!

No, the better question is: who are you? Any definitive answer to this question is obscure, but, admittedly, not very important. Provisional answers: 1) an example of an anonymous type, aptly described by Charlie Wilkes in post #8, and 2) an individual whose florid usages seem persistently designed to hide the fact that his reach exceeds his grasp.

 

[Kauffer]

European Arrest Warrant

The thing is that Amanda will remain free, giving Italy a black eye over and over again until the reputation of Italy as far as their legal system is in tatters. Might even get to the point where other EU nations will no longer fast track extraditions to Italy.

Funny you should mention that. The European Scrutiny Committee in the UK Parliament pointed out very recently "the detriment caused to British citizens who have been surrendered to another member state under the [arrest warrant] and, in some cases, detained for lengthy periods of time in poor prison conditions, without being tried or convicted".

Note

The European Arrest Warrant operates EU-wide and replaced separate extradition arrangements between the EU member states
It was introduced in January 2004, and was prompted by the international anti-terror drive after the 11 September 2001 attacks on the United States
A national judicial authority, such as a court, can issue an EU warrant to get a suspect extradited.
For a warrant to be valid, the suspect must be accused of an offence incurring a maximum penalty of at least a year in prison, or must have been already sentenced to at least four months in prison

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29884444

 

[Desert Fox]

Funny you should mention that. The European Scrutiny Committee in the UK Parliament pointed out very recently "the detriment caused to British citizens who have been surrendered to another member state under the [arrest warrant] and, in some cases, detained for lengthy periods of time in poor prison conditions, without being tried or convicted".

Note

The European Arrest Warrant operates EU-wide and replaced separate extradition arrangements between the EU member states
It was introduced in January 2004, and was prompted by the international anti-terror drive after the 11 September 2001 attacks on the United StatesA national judicial authority, such as a court, can issue an EU warrant to get a suspect extradited.
For a warrant to be valid, the suspect must be accused of an offence incurring a maximum penalty of at least a year in prison, or must have been already sentenced to at least four months in prison

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29884444

So much stupidity was created as a result of that

 

[LondonJohn]

HoRseRAdish !

Well whatever it was, it certainly should not have been presented to the court as blood__________!

The rule is: Luminol positive followed by (proper 2-part) TMB negative = not blood. And confirmatory test negative = not blood. But perhaps you weren't aware of this_________?

 

[Bill Williams]

Diocletus,

Nice find. I liked this part: "The luminol tests were not performed according to accepted standards...Most importantly, confirmatory tests were not performed to determine whether the "glow" was caused by human blood or something else."

On top of all this, one of the photos of the "luminol glow", shows one of the Scientific Police rulers (used for scale), itself glowing in spots, as well as one of the technician's anti-contamination boots also glowing in spots.

If "circumstantial evidence" is the coin of the realm in this case (as per Machiavelli), and circumstantial evidence is apples....

..... how about them apples!

 

[Bill Williams]

No, the better question is: who are you? Any definitive answer to this question is obscure, but, admittedly, not very important. Provisional answers: 1) an example of an anonymous type, aptly described by Charlie Wilkes in post #8, and 2) an individual whose florid usages seem persistently designed to hide the fact that his reach exceeds his grasp.

Here is Charlie Wilkes post #8....

Yes, you see what happens when a cult of hysterical nitwits must contend with real science that undermines their sacred belief.

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

Not really that hard. . . .Ms Cantwell is a senator from Washington State and Ms Knox's representative. She can put energy to making sure that the department of state never approves any extradition requests. Seattle is also not some little Podunk town such as Perugia. . . . Ever heard of Microsoft or Boeing?

Going on with my previous post, Perugia has already become a ghost town as far as foreign students because of what has occurred.

You sound like an educated, sophisticated and well-travelled man. Have you ever considered a career in the US diplomatic service? They are no doubt always looking for urbane types like yourself to present the best side of America to the world.

 

[Desert Fox]

You sound like an educated, sophisticated and well-travelled man. Have you ever considered a career in the US diplomatic service? They are no doubt always looking for urbane types like yourself to present the best side of America to the world.

Simply put,m Seattle has four times the population and is, to be blunt, an economic power house. Perugia is not an economic power house.

As the trial is about Italian politics, any extradition is going to be about US politics and Us senators have power in such an arena.

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

Simply put,m Seattle has four times the population and is, to be blunt, an economic power house. Perugia is not an economic power house.

As the trial is about Italian politics, any extradition is going to be about US politics and Us senators have power in such an arena.

God love us. There's more outside than there are inside, as the saying goes.

 

[Diocletus]

Funny you should mention that. The European Scrutiny Committee in the UK Parliament pointed out very recently "the detriment caused to British citizens who have been surrendered to another member state under the [arrest warrant] and, in some cases, detained for lengthy periods of time in poor prison conditions, without being tried or convicted".
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29884444

One of those dodgy places is Italy, to which the UK will refuse to extradite due to prison conditions. Maybe Amanda Knox should move to the UK--she'd be safe there.

 

[Diocletus]

Senator Cantwell, who she? I can only deduce from the context that she must be some kind of projected back-up saviour in case the appeal to the ECHR is declared inadmissible. Actually some 97%+ of applications to the ECHR from Italy were deemed inadmissible in 2013, which strongly suggests that it is overwhelmingly used as a last-ditch, final resort for hopeless defence teams who want to appear to their clients to be doing something, anything.

Could you provide a cite for this? And actually, 3% of Italy's 14,000 applications would be a fair chunk of the court's caseload.

I'm interested in the statistics for Art. 3/Art. 6 cases not involving length of proceedings, but not sure the stats are broken out in that way.

Also, how many applications that aren't deemed inadmissible within the first year are not reviewed?

 

[platonov]

Smaller doses than usual but definitely....

Well whatever it was, it certainly should not have been presented to the court as blood__________!

The rule is: Luminol positive followed by (proper 2-part) TMB negative = not blood. And confirmatory test negative = not blood. But perhaps you weren't aware of this_________?

Turnipjuice !

 

[kwill]

My favorite line from this continuation so far

It has to be this:

Evidence is a logical concept, it is not an object located within a small space.

Thanks for clearing that up, Mach. I've been confused until now about how it is possible for so many people to be so convinced that forensics are irrelevant when it comes to determining guilt or innocence.

Just focus on the logic and forget the objects. Presto!

 

[Diocletus]

Turnips and Radishes

Here is what one judge did when confronted with unconfirmed luminol results:

In other evidentiary concerns Thursday, Judge Howard Simms ruled to exclude talk at the February trial about inconclusive luminol tests for blood conducted on Giddings’ bathtub and bathroom tile.

Luminol, a chemical sprayed on surfaces to detect blood, can also emit its telltale glow in the presence of a variety of substances other than blood, including household bleach, detergents and plant matter. No blood was found in the bathroom.

In excluding the luminol, which the prosecution may have hoped to use to imply that the bathroom had been “super-cleaned,” Simms said it was unknown if any luminol glow there was caused by “chlorine or Dawn or radishes.”

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2013/12/12/2828837/burglary-evidence-out-in-mcdaniel.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Bill Williams]

It has to be this:

Evidence is a logical concept, it is not an object located within a small space.

Thanks for clearing that up, Mach. I've been confused until now about how it is possible for so many people to be so convinced that forensics are irrelevant when it comes to determining guilt or innocence.

Just focus on the logic and forget the objects. Presto!

Rats.

I was just about to post my favourite Machiavelli contribution to the fog of the Pro-Guilt PR lobby, but then I ran across this. Mine was when Machivelli said that "innocent until proven guilty" is only a procedural matter.

You win. That one takes the cake.