Barkley Speaks His Mind

[Mumbles]

Mumbles. You made an extraordinary claim. You've been called out on it... and now can't at all back it up. How on earth is that an example of wildcat digging themselves deeper.

Okay, your turn. What is this "extraordinary claim" that I made, and why are you obsessing over it in this thread?

 

[SezMe]

I assume he is, considering that Cosby has been hounded by such accusations for decades.

And to be fair, Cosby did have thirteen separate women allege that he drugged and raped them. That's an unusually high number of complaints - I assume most men are sitting are exactly 0 such complaints.

I had no idea of this. Huh. Learn something every day.

 

[WildCat]

Okay, your turn. What is this "extraordinary claim" that I made, and why are you obsessing over it in this thread?

I lost count how many times I've quoted this claim of yours:

"Obviously, doing things like concentrating bus depots in black neighborhoods, especially when they ran on leaded fuel, will affect those neighborhoods."

 

[Mumbles]

I had no idea of this. Huh. Learn something every day.

It's worth noting that, while I recall that he settled out of court with one accuser, the rest were past the statute of limitations when they reported, so he has no convictions. In other words, nothing proven in public.

Even so...thirteen separate women with allegations...

 

[newyorkguy]

Environmental racism certainly exists. Studies show African Americans are 79% more likely than whites to live in neighborhoods where industrial pollution is suspected of causing the greatest health dangers. While African Americans suffer disproportionately from environmental dangers the government -- local, state and federal -- do little to address this problem.

The movement began when the state of North Carolina tried to locate a 14 county PCB landfill in a small primarily African American community of Warren. We've seen this same thing here in New York where it always seems easiest to put that new recycling center or sewage treatment plant in a minority neighborhood. Link

 

[Unabogie]

I lost count how many times I've quoted this claim of yours:

"Obviously, doing things like concentrating bus depots in black neighborhoods, especially when they ran on leaded fuel, will affect those neighborhoods."

You also lost count of how many times you were told that you've misinterpreted that sentence. Are you simply too dense to understand this, or are you doing it deliberately to make people mad at you so you can collect up some moderation scalps?

 

[Mumbles]

You also lost count of how many times you were told that you've misinterpreted that sentence. Are you simply too dense to understand this, or are you doing it deliberately to make people mad at you so you can collect up some moderation scalps?

No point worrying about it. Back to the subject...

Where are these neighborhoods where black people hate success? I pointed to Baltimore before, so I'll point out a local hero - Dr. Ben Carson. Long before he somehow became a Tea Party hero for beings against same-sex marriage and...advocating single-payer health care, he was lecturing in inner-cities on the importance of education. And many people do admire him, for his personal story, for his advocacy of literacy, and for offering scholarships to children who read and maintain a high GPA. And the people I've spoken to about him, are really conflicted. He's really a great man in many respects, but he lets his Seventh Day Adventist junk get in his way.

But until he decided to chide Obama, I never heard him being called an "Uncle Tom", or a "sellout", or anything of that nature. According to Charles Barkley, he should have been driven out of black neighborhoods...but the truth is, parents loved having him speak in schools, because, surprise, black parents do not want to see their kids into crime, or shot dead in the street, how is this so difficult for people to understand?

 

[Mumbles]

I lost count how many times I've quoted this claim of yours:

"Obviously, doing things like concentrating bus depots in black neighborhoods, especially when they ran on leaded fuel, will affect those neighborhoods."

No, no, no, I wasn't asking you. You've embarrassed yourself enough, I was asking Caper if *he* had any evidence.

 

[CosCos]

What an absolutely stunning display of intellectual dishonesty. Mumbles, you're lucky that you're surrounded by like minded the ideologues who won't call you on your BS. Wildcat has a certain reputation here due to his conservative views that never helps him in these debates unfortunately.

The fact is your post is there for everyone to see and no amount of back peddling on your part will change that.

This board of "skeptics" never ceases to amaze me.

 

[WildCat]

You also lost count of how many times you were told that you've misinterpreted that sentence. Are you simply too dense to understand this, or are you doing it deliberately to make people mad at you so you can collect up some moderation scalps?

I did not misinterpret anything, it says what it says. and in very plain English. How do you interpret that statement?

No, no, no, I wasn't asking you. You've embarrassed yourself enough, I was asking Caper if *he* had any evidence.

Of course you weren't asking me. You were making a declarative statement, not asking a question. And you have provided no evidence whatsoever that bus depots were concentrated in black neighborhoods, in the lead burning fuel era or any other. And in the one example you gave (Roxbury, Boston) was of blacks moving into a neighborhood already polluted by industry, not of such industry locating in black neighborhoods.

 

[WildCat]

What an absolutely stunning display of intellectual dishonesty. Mumbles, you're lucky that you're surrounded by like minded the ideologues who won't call you on your BS. Wildcat has a certain reputation here due to his conservative views that never helps him in these debates unfortunately.

I have neither conservative nor liberal views, I base my views on what I think is proper and makes sense with no regard for ideology. In fact I despise ideologues, that's why I have advocated policies viewed by most people as both conservative and liberal.

 

[carlitos]

In a lot of places there was also the issue of redlining and segregation. Places like Bill O'Reilly's famous Levittown, where he likes to say he learned him his solid family values and virtues, explicitly forbade minorities from living there. So naturally, in many places, if you can't find housing where the white people are you end up finding it in the places where no one wants to live. And that's usually "on the other side of the tracks" where the factories are. This results in minorities living near pollution at a higher rate than whites. So it's not a conspiracy in the sense that whites want to make black people sick, it's that segregation results in black people getting sick, and white people didn't think that was a good enough reason to change the situation.

In the US, class has often been defined by race. In the UK, the East End / West End exhibit the same pattern, with poor people living nearer to industrial pollution, and they all had the same skin tone. At least in Glasgow and London.

Huh? Are you talking about Cosby?

That is correct.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...ations_why_isn_t_anyone_paying_attention.html

http://www.laughspin.com/2014/10/27/actress-barbara-bowman-bill-cosby-raped-me/

http://madamenoire.com/484088/bill-cosbys-alleged-rape-victim-speaks-out/


///

ETA -
1 - I'm not sure how one could "concentrate" bus depots. A big city like Chicago has one bus depot in the city center, and some stops going outwards into the neighborhoods. Maybe some cities have more, but why on earth would they be "concentrated?" From a transportation POV, that makes no sense.
2 - Wikipedia tells me that only 1 of the bus models used by Greyhound in the 50's / early 60's was run on Diesel. Presumably the rest ran on leaded gas.

So perhaps we take a deep breath, and try to communicate better?

 

[Unabogie]

In the US, class has often been defined by race. In the UK, the East End / West End exhibit the same pattern, with poor people living nearer to industrial pollution, and they all had the same skin tone. At least in Glasgow and London.

Totally agreed. But we're talking about the plight of African-Americans here in the U.S. And unlike in Glasgow, our situation is due to a systemic, institutionalized discrimination -- based solely on race -- that stole wealth from black people and then blamed them for their poverty. The fact that black people live near the pollution is a feature, not a bug, of the system. It's not a conspiracy theory to discuss Jim Crow, redlining, drug laws that affect black people more than white people, disparities in drug prosecutions or sentencing, or even just the fact that in majority black neighborhoods, the schools are drastically worse than in majority white neighborhoods and that when it comes to places to live, black people in this country find themselves in the dirtier parts of town no matter the state. As an interesting factoid, my first house, built in 1950, had a clause in the deed that said that the house could not be resold to a "negro". This was in Van Nuys, CA. Considering that my grandparents bought a house in L.A. back in the late 40's, I'm a beneficiary of this policy that led to my family living in a part of town that wasn't where the factories were (at the expense of black people vying for the same home).

The original topic of this thread is that the only thing holding back smart black people is stupid black people is historically ignorant.

So perhaps we take a deep breath, and try to communicate better?

Indeed. And the first step in communication is to seek clarification and to accept the words of others as their true perspective. I notice that you understand the point Mumbles made (which I expanded on) quite clearly, and in good faith, you're addressing the issue of poor people and the concentration of environmental hazards in their neighborhoods. Are you somehow that much smarter than Wildcat, blessed with cognitive skills he was born without, or do you maybe think that he's being purposefully obtuse in his failure to understand a topic to which you've so quickly acclimated yourself?

 

[Mumbles]

What an absolutely stunning display of intellectual dishonesty. Mumbles, you're lucky that you're surrounded by like minded the ideologues who won't call you on your BS. Wildcat has a certain reputation here due to his conservative views that never helps him in these debates unfortunately.

The fact is your post is there for everyone to see and no amount of back peddling on your part will change that.

This board of "skeptics" never ceases to amaze me.

Uh huh.

Okay, so you've decided to step up. Please, tell us all exactly why you are accusing me of "intellectual dishonesty". And what does this have to do with the actual topic of this thread?

 

[carlitos]

The original topic of this thread is that the only thing holding back smart black people is stupid black people is historically ignorant.

"During a radio interview, the media personality said that he believed successful African-Americans are targeted by "brainwashed" and "uneducated" members of their community. "For some reason, we're brainwashed to think if you're not a thug or an idiot, you're not black enough," he said. "If you go to school, make good grades, speak intelligent and don't break the law, you're not a good black person. ... As a black person, we all go through it when you're successful."

You have meandered into another discussion now. What you said above was not the original topic.

 

[Unabogie]

You have meandered into another discussion now. What you said above was not the original topic.

Well, I'm not sure I agree. However you interpret Barkley, though, can you at least respond to this question?

Indeed. And the first step in communication is to seek clarification and to accept the words of others as their true perspective. I notice that you understand the point Mumbles made (which I expanded on) quite clearly, and in good faith, you're addressing the issue of poor people and the concentration of environmental hazards in their neighborhoods. Are you somehow that much smarter than Wildcat, blessed with cognitive skills he was born without, or do you maybe think that he's being purposefully obtuse in his failure to understand a topic to which you've so quickly acclimated yourself?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

<snip>
Indeed. And the first step in communication is to seek clarification and to accept the words of others as their true perspective.
<snip>

It would be nice if posters practiced what they preached.

 

[Mumbles]

You have meandered into another discussion now. What you said above was not the original topic.

Wait, how is this off-topic? The entire point of this thread was that Charles Barkley was supposedly brave for claiming that black Americans hold one another back. It's even referenced in the header, "Barkley Speaks His Mind". That was the original topic.

And, as I've said, there's a long history of this sort of argument - and it's always been false. Again, Barkley isn't saying anything brave, or new. He's just repeating old stereotypes.

 

[Unabogie]

It would be nice if posters practiced what they preached.

Indeed. I took you at your word when you said you had nothing in common with "inner city youth".

 

[CplFerro]

Why should you take Barkley seriously in the first place? Remember, he made a blanket statement about black Americans. Why does he have credibility?

Why shouldn't he have credibility? He's a black man talking about his experience, saying something that is obviously unpopular to say. How many black men talking about their experience would there have to be to allow a "blanket" statement about black Americans?

Cpl Ferro