Continuation Part 10: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Chris_Halkides]

the fallacy of appealing to authority

They are not innocent, unfortunately - as the Court of Cassation in Rome wiill confirm next March.

Stripped to its essence, this is a tired and tiresome appeal to authority. Supercal and his intellectual brethren (Nencini included) seem to enjoy surrendering their right to examine the evidence for themselves, instead deferring to the SCC. Unfortunately for them, the SCC has no intellectual or moral authority with respect to this case: by their own hand, they have declared good forensic protocols to be unnecessary and facts to be irrelevant.

 

[Kauffer]

What utter nonsense. You can be sure that the US embassy in Italy, who we know have closely monitored the trial, would have complained in no uncertain terms of any irregularities. They have not. They are in possession of the facts and they know damn well that this particular nutty US subject is as guilty as sin. In fact you could say that their silence on the matter is absolutely bloody deafening. It's case closed as far as they are concerned.

Hilarious! You just made all that up. Sheer invention; sheer stupidity. Of course governments don't comment on these matters!

 

[Numbers]

What utter nonsense. You can be sure that the US embassy in Italy, who we know have closely monitored the trial, would have complained in no uncertain terms of any irregularities. They have not. They are in possession of the facts and they know damn well that this particular nutty US subject is as guilty as sin. In fact you could say that their silence on the matter is absolutely bloody deafening. It's case closed as far as they are concerned.

The US Department of State choose not to embarrass an ally by any public statement.

Senator Cantwell has expressed opinions shared by informed US citizens in her comments.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

an intellectually lazy argument

What utter nonsense. You can be sure that the US embassy in Italy, who we know have closely monitored the trial, would have complained in no uncertain terms of any irregularities. They have not.

The willful stupidity of this argument is astonishing. There is no good reason whatsoever to make such as argument. There is a bad one, however. It allows one to assume that the trial was fair without examining the question for oneself and potentially having to confront one's mistakes. Supercal's argument is lazy and self-serving.

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

Stripped to its essence, this is the tired and tiresome appeal to authority. Supercal and his intellectual brethren (Nencini included) seem to enjoy surrendering their right to examine the evidence for themselves, instead deferring to the SCC. Unfortunately for them, the SCC has no intellectual or moral authority with respect to this case: by their own hand, they have declared good forensic protocols to be unnecessary and facts to be irrelevant.

Then why don't you alert the US Embassy in Italy - I'm sure they'd love to hear your theory of widespread corruption and malfeasance because, you know, these generally uneducated diplomats aren't bright enough to spot it themselves. I would say it's your duty to contact them. Have you?

 

[Numbers]

Then why don't you alert the US Embassy in Italy - I'm sure they'd love to hear your theory of widespread corruption and malfeasance because, you know, these generally uneducated diplomats aren't bright enough to spot it themselves. I would say it's your duty to contact them. Have you?

What seems unique to me is the flock of trolls whose wretched lives are devoted to polluting the internet with their asinine and puerile comments following this case.

ETA:
Corruption in Italy, including in the judicial system, is well-known to informed persons including, of course diplomats. Only those who are uninformed or choose to be or are otherwise distorting reality would state otherwise. Italy has the highest number of pending applications to the ECHR (17,300, or 20.4% of the total as of 30 Sep 2014) of any of the 47 member states of the Council of Europe.

 

[Desert Fox]

Then why don't you alert the US Embassy in Italy - I'm sure they'd love to hear your theory of widespread corruption and malfeasance because, you know, these generally uneducated diplomats aren't bright enough to spot it themselves. I would say it's your duty to contact them. Have you?

Again, are you arguing that there is nobody in prison in Italy who their convictions have been confirmed by the Court of Cassation who is innocent?

 

[Diocletus]

What utter nonsense. You can be sure that the US embassy in Italy, who we know have closely monitored the trial, would have complained in no uncertain terms of any irregularities. They have not.

This is one guilter meme that I've never fully understood. Why do they think that the US embassy would have said anything at this point, PARTICULARLY something they (guilters) would know about? Are these people so naïve that they think that's how it works?

Anyway, if I'm the US ambassador, I'm waiting to see if the ECHR is going to do the job for me. It's game over if Amanda's appeal is accepted.

 

[Diocletus]

A wonderfully succinct summary of this case. I discussed 8 O'Clock Ferry to the Windward Side by Clive Stafford Smith some years ago. Why shouldn't we publicize all variations of wrongful detentions or convictions? How else will they get fixed?

A fellow I know did this: http://www.boston.com/ae/books/arti...nicles_the_righting_of_a_wrongful_conviction/

This is a nice thought for all of you skeptics:

And finally, this book serves as evidence in a world populated by skeptics and cynics that a few good Samaritans like the Philadelphia lawyers exist and can make a positive difference.

 

[Diocletus]

It is not a hard question -
Are you arguing that there is nobody in prison in Italy who their convictions have been confirmed by the Court of Cassation who is innocent?
Basically is the Court of Cassation 100% perfect when they confirm a conviction?

Of course they are. They use osmosis.

 

[Kaosium]

It is not a hard question -
Are you arguing that there is nobody in prison in Italy who their convictions have been confirmed by the Court of Cassation who is innocent?
Basically is the Court of Cassation 100% perfect when they confirm a conviction?

Of course they aren't, as a matter of fact they're the most reversed court in the history of modern Europe. Every Italian case that goes before the ECHR must have been signed off on by the Italian Court of Cassation. The sheer number of cases where Italy was in violation dwarfs every other single country in Western Europe historically.

It's the worst 'appeal to authority' available in Western European jurisprudence. The vast majority of those cases they're reversed on apply to their inability to correctly administer Italian (and European) law, which is their charge, here they attempted to rule on evidence they never saw or had a chance to evaluate, with even more disastrous results.

 

[Desert Fox]

Of course they aren't, as a matter of fact they're the most reversed court in the history of modern Europe. Every Italian case that goes before the ECHR must have been signed off on by the Italian Court of Cassation. The sheer number of cases where Italy was in violation dwarfs every other single country in Western Europe historically.

It's the worst 'appeal to authority' available in Western European jurisprudence. The vast majority of those cases they're reversed on apply to their inability to correctly administer Italian (and European) law, which is their charge, here they attempted to rule on evidence they never saw or had a chance to evaluate, with even more disastrous results.

If you notice that he/she has not directly answered my question. I am pretty sure that just about everybody else here is willing to admit that the courts (even the supreme courts) have made mistakes confirming convictions.

 

[Kaosium]

If you notice that he/she has not directly answered my question. I am pretty sure that just about everybody else here is willing to admit that the courts (even the supreme courts) have made mistakes confirming convictions.

You'll find (most of) the ones who insist Amanda and Raffaele are guilty don't like answering questions on the case. Most of them don't actually know much about it they didn't get from the tabloids, the rest seem to figure the Italian Court System must always be right, except when it acquitted Amanda and Raffaele and let them go.

Incidentally, after it was revealed the prosecution had hidden the negative TMB tests and lied about it in court, Comodi took the floor and said something to the effect that the luminol hits 'could be turnip juice or blood, you decide.'

 

[Desert Fox]

You'll find (most of) the ones who insist Amanda and Raffaele don't like answering questions on the case. Most of them don't actually know much about it they didn't get from the tabloids, the rest seem to figure the Italian Court System must always be right, except when it acquitted Amanda and Raffaele and let them go.

Incidentally, after it was revealed the prosecution had hidden the negative TMB tests and lied about it in court, Comodi took the floor and said something to the effect that the luminol hits 'could be turnip juice or blood, you decide.'

I think I need a score card of who is who
In any case, there are many items which trigger luminol such as common cleaning agents and even the soil in the Perugia area that teh statement is just stupid.

 

[Kaosium]

I think I need a score card of who is who

Manuela Comodi (which comes out as Manuela Comfortable with Google translate) was Mignini's partner in crime, another PM who handled most of the scientific work for the prosecution in court as Mignini admits he knows little of the intricacies of serology or DNA forensics.

In any case, there are many items which trigger luminol such as common cleaning agents and even the soil in the Perugia area that teh statement is just stupid.

Of course, but that false dichotomy worked with the high school drop-out level jurors ('lay judges') in the Massei Court and their online fan club with no better grasp of science or logic.

 

[platonov]

Who's she

I think I need a score card of who is who
In any case, there are many items which trigger luminol such as common cleaning agents and even the soil in the Perugia area that teh statement is just stupid.

Who’s Comodi ???
Only the prosecutor (Mignini’s accomplice/henchwomen) with the time machine!!!

Tell me, before we go any further, have you ever heard of Meredith Kercher.

 

[Desert Fox]

Manuela Comodi (which comes out as Manuela Comfortable with Google translate) was Mignini's partner in crime, another PM who handled most of the scientific work for the prosecution in court as Mignini admits he knows little of the intricacies of serology or DNA forensics.

Of course, but that false dichotomy worked with the high school drop-out level jurors ('lay judges') in the Massei Court and their fan club online with no better grasp of science or logic.

Being that it is not even a defense argument, there is no real argument that it is a strawman argument. . . .

Do lay judges actually do anything though?

 

[platonov]

You'll find (most of) the ones who insist Amanda and Raffaele don't like answering questions on the case. Most of them don't actually know much about it they didn't get from the tabloids, the rest seem to figure the Italian Court System must always be right, except when it acquitted Amanda and Raffaele and let them go.

Incidentally, after it was revealed the prosecution had hidden the negative TMB tests and lied about it in court, Comodi took the floor and said something to the effect that the luminol hits 'could be turnip juice or blood, you decide.'

Well, Kaosium why don’t you explain to the noobs what the hitherto unknown Comodi was referring to.

With your hard won scientific expertise & unrivaled knowledge of the case/testimony it should be no problem

 

[Desert Fox]

Who’s Comodi ???
Only the prosecutor (Mignini’s accomplice/henchwomen) with the time machine!!!

Tell me, before we go any further, have you ever heard of Meredith Kercher.

I do not remember all the players involved in the Norfolk Four or West Memphis Three cases either. I am not seeing why this should be anything so horrid.

 

[Kaosium]

Who’s Comodi ???
Only the prosecutor (Mignini’s accomplice/henchwomen) with the time machine!!!

Tell me, before we go any further, have you ever heard of Meredith Kercher.

That's better than not knowing who Dr. Bruce Budowle or Dr. Peter Gill is, both of whom the clowns who wrote the false wiki tried to pretend were either nobodies that defenses employed as 'hired guns' or nobodies who just published in obscure journals.

Those guys are the ones who set up and ran the FBI DNA lab and one of the originators in the field of DNA forensics.


The ones who said it weren't a guy new to the case (that Comodi hasn't been involved in for three years) who said it, that was a moderator of PMF and the guy who started the false wiki (McCall).