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Are Multiple Personalities Real?

Orphia Nay

Penguilicious Spodmaster
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I interviewed 5 people who were diagnosed with Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) / Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID).

http://www.dysgenics.com/2014/10/26/are-multiple-personalities-real-part-1-of-5/

If you take the time to read these interviews, I'd love to know if they helped you form an opinion on whether MPD/DID is real.

If you don't have time to read the interviews and just want to discuss MPD/DID, I'll quote my summation at the end:

Why didn’t I include answers from anyone who currently believes multiple personalities are real?

It would be promoting a sense of false balance by including believers’ answers. The science is not divided on the issue.

These people here have lived and breathed multiple personalities, and understood the reasons for and against alters to the depth of their beings, rationally concluding they are not real. They have seen both sides of the argument to the fullest extent.
 
OK, I read them. Thanks for the brain-teaser. I have to say that I've known people with DID and have spoken to some Inside as well in a variety of contexts.

I have to say that they did not change my thinking substantially as to whether they are real or not. My opinion is still the same, but it might not satisfy you.

I don't think multiple personalities are real. I don't believe that a single personality is real, either. The concept of personality is an interesting concept, but it's quite vague. I don't know what "personality" is such that I could count them with integers. "Personality" seems to me more like a mass noun, like "air." You don't have one air or five airs in the room. There's air in a room. There's personality in a brain. (Well, most of the time.)

I've known a couple of people who have had big chunks cut out of their brains. They all were similar, in the following way. Afterward, they were noticeably different, but they reported feeling that they were the "same person."

I believe that they weren't lying, that they were describing something very important to them, a sense of self and continuity. I don't, however, trust that concept for myself. I have that feeling, too, but I don't trust it well enough to state a belief in it. I find it a common convenience to use the trinity "me," "myself," and "I." but I don't take it any further than that.

I also think that some degree of personality disassociation is common to everyone. Everybody changes for good or for ill when they get drunk or angry or scared or sick. This includes, sometimes, memories and skills. I was sick for a couple of days and in a lot of pain (tooth pain which was pretty bad, almost at pancreatitis levels), and it made me stupid so I couldn't program. I played a couple of games today that showed me I was a bit better, and so I'll probably do some programming tomorrow.

So I do think that DID exists. Maybe some people just have more of that. Maybe there's some psychological trauma that causes a reaction that is more dramatic. It's pretty easy to understand how people could have fairly different sets of memories in different states. Even something as seemingly simple as neurotransmitters get into synapses and make them inhibitory; a mood change can do an awful lot of (hopefully temporary) rewiring, and the resulting net might have a vastly different logical structure. Maybe some people have something that makes this more likely or more dramatic. I don't know what the mechanism is, but qualitatively, it doesn't seem at all exotic or weird.

But I wouldn't use the notion of a countable personality to describe it. That seems to me a mythological and religious construct related to the concepts of the soul, whatever it is that gets reborn in rebirth (except of course it doesn't, but people make fine worm food), demonic possession, Kantian monads, and atomic models of consciousness. I don't believe a word of it, though, and it frustrates me how many skeptics and atheists do (not the religious part, but something equally simplistic, maybe Cartesian rationalism). It's fairly obvious to me that there's a sense in most people to want to think in terms of a unified personality, but I see no reason to consider this any more than a "folk" model that the brain constructs to describe itself. Plus, these "folk" models have proven to be crap in a lot of cases.

So for me a question like "do you believe in multiple personalities" hovers just at the edge of meaninglessness. If I were to answer it, I would have to know a lot more about what you mean by the word "personality" than I do. All I can assume is that it's the commonplace mythological meaning, and that, at least, seems like a concept far too mushy to count.
 
epepke, you might be surprised to know I agree with you about "personality".

I've read Julian Baggini's "The Ego Trick" where he endorses the idea that there is no "pearl" of self, no soul, no essential personality for any one person.

We are a "bundle" of emotions, memories and opinions that differ almost at any one moment; we change over a lifetime or with injury.

ETA: Thanks heaps for reading.
 
I find it perhaps more heartening than surprising.

It bothers me that so many atheists and skeptics seem to assume a monadic model. They deny this, of course, but it affects the patterns of how they apply their skepticism. I'm very much interested in the model emerging in Cognitive Science these days. I think it's far more useful than most of the older ideas, at least the "sensible" ones, though there are foreshadowings in the literature from way, way back.

Still, I think that things are coming together rather nicely. I haven't read the book you mentioned, but I am on From Molecule to Metaphor by Jerome Feldman.
 
I interviewed 5 people who were diagnosed with Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) / Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID).

http://www.dysgenics.com/2014/10/26/are-multiple-personalities-real-part-1-of-5/

If you take the time to read these interviews, I'd love to know if they helped you form an opinion on whether MPD/DID is real.

If you don't have time to read the interviews and just want to discuss MPD/DID, I'll quote my summation at the end:

Why didn’t I include answers from anyone who currently believes multiple personalities are real?

It would be promoting a sense of false balance by including believers’ answers. The science is not divided on the issue.

These people here have lived and breathed multiple personalities, and understood the reasons for and against alters to the depth of their beings, rationally concluding they are not real. They have seen both sides of the argument to the fullest extent.
Well that was edifying. I am in no way a subject matter expert, but I think those interviews put a finger in the sore wound.

To date, I have known personally two DID sufferers. In both cases the story molded itself into "what they thought you would likely believe".

In any event, TYVM for posting those interviews
 
I think they do although people with actual distinct, multiple personality disorder are rare.
I can say that I've spoken to lots of patients who claim to have it, but none of them seemed particularly compelling.
 
Personality is like knees.
I have the same knees I had thirty years ago.
But they don't feel the same, don't work the same, don't even look the same.
But I'm damn sure I never changed them.
 
I have at least three personalities. Morning person, nappy-time guy, and drunk.
 

Thanks for the interesting block of text epepke.
So it seems like our sense of self as an individual is more a necessary fiction generated by the brain?
If some trauma or brain injury were to damage that, then it could well result in 'multiple' personalities?
 
There is no reason why reading interviews with people who have experienced a diagnosis and concluded it isn't real should help convince anyone that the condition is not real. That is no different from reading interviews with people who have are convinced that they do have multiple personalities, and concluding that the condition is real. The interviews are interesting illustrations of how some people may have misdiagnosed, influenced by suggestion, or treated unethically, but not a source of evidence about whether or not a condition exists.

I would also dispute that 'science is not divided on the issue' of DID. MPD has not been used as a diagnosis since the 90s, but DID is still included in the DSM and was revised and retained as a form of dissociative disorder in the 2013 revision. It is controversial, and the scientific status of psychological diagnosis in general is dubious. There is in fact a great deal of divided opinion over DID and what the diagnosis represents.
 
So for me a question like "do you believe in multiple personalities" hovers just at the edge of meaninglessness. If I were to answer it, I would have to know a lot more about what you mean by the word "personality" than I do. All I can assume is that it's the commonplace mythological meaning, and that, at least, seems like a concept far too mushy to count.

There is no good definition of what a "personality" is, or how it works; which is why the term "multiple personality" was dropped from the clinical literature; and replaced with the more descriptive and useful Dissociative Identity Disorder. Dissociation is something that is a normal human coping mechanism, the ability to set aside certain responses and thoughts to function in a world that bombards us with stimulus and the need to react. Like any psychological mechanism, it can be taken to pathological extremes as a reaction to trauma, organic damage, or co-morbid mental illness. A tendency to dissociate from memories or reactions too difficult to manage in order to maintain a semblance of normality.

I don't really see anything that is terribly controversial about the concept; though the popular reports of such are typically grossly sensationalized. Stuff like changing eye colour, allergies appearing and disappearing, etc. Some of that stuff can be explained by a somatic symptom disorder combined with a lot of exaggeration (eg. eye colour can appear to change due to dilation/contraction). As far as "blackouts", those are easily explained by the effect of self-medication, memory loss due to other issues, or just the normal vagaries of human memory (exaggerated and/or sensationalized).
 
Thanks for the interesting block of text epepke.
So it seems like our sense of self as an individual is more a necessary fiction generated by the brain?

Maybe, depending on what you mean by "necessary fiction." I'm going to stick with "folk model" because that's the term that George Lakoff uses, and I find it useful.

There are many, many things in brains, and they all interact in hugely complex and approximate ways. Most of the time they seem sort of OK. I say "sort of," because that's also an illusion. People think of proper brain functioning as normative; if you act like other people, you're "ordered," and if you don't, you're "disordered." However, every human being is in constant conflict, and it shifts the balance. Ordinary experiences like anger and sexual excitement can affect decision-making abilities, to the point where under their influence, people can truly believe things that in other states they just as truly believe are wrong. This is an ordinary experience, and I'm convinced that many of the diagnosable "mental disorders" result substantially from these conflicts.

We certainly know of particular gross instances of brain damage that can exacerbate this. There are the split-brain patients, whose corpus callosa have been severed to stop seizures. The halves of their bodies will often act in different ways. The part of their brain that is still connected to the mouth and can do language will often report their other arms reaching for things that they don't want. There are other patients who have damage to the part of the brain that helps them integrate information from audio and visual channels. Oliver Sachs reported that these people love to watch political broadcasts, which they find uproarious, because all the body language is so much in conflict with the words being said as the politicians try to lie and prevaricate. It is an instance where a little bit of a disorder might be better.

[/quote]If some trauma or brain injury were to damage that, then it could well result in 'multiple' personalities?[/QUOTE]

Yes, but it goes beyond that. To a large degree it is normal functioning. This is how the brain basically works. It's not that it works one way, and then trauma or damage breaks it, and then it works (or fails to work) another way. How it works is substantially the same.

As I pointed out, I find it dismaying that skeptics believe so much in logic. That's a kind of Cartesian mistake, which is flat-out wrong: the idea that brains are reasoning engines. It's deceptive, because logic is so simple, and you can list all the rules on a 3 by 5 card. However, the fact remains that brains can do logic. That is what people should be amazed at, that a system originally evolved to provide simple motor control by the engineering hack of having a signal respond on the same side of the body to avoid a stimulus and cross the body to move toward a stimulus should evolve the capability. That is interesting, and it cannot be disregarded.

When you look into how it works, it's fascinating. Almost everything that goes on with respect to learning in the brain involves Hebbian learning. It's simple. There are neurons. They fire, unless they don't. Each runs a lot of axons to other neurons, connected through synapses. When the axons carry signals, it increases the probability that the neurons they are connected to will fire, and then their axons will fire, and so on. When axons fire a lot, they strengthen and eventually split into two. When they don't, they fall apart.

That's it. Where's the logic in that? It's just like wires and resistors and relays. Well, you can see how there is OR and AND capability within them. The more axons coming into a neuron that fire, the more likely it is to fire. That's AND. But you don't need all of them, and maybe one strong signal will do it. That's OR. As any kid who has wired up logic circuits with switches knows, you can do a lot with OR and AND, but not everything. You need a NOT to do a complete logic. But NOTS are expensive. So there has to be a NOT in there somewhere.

It turns out, there are. They are called inhibitory synapses. An axon connected to one will tend to prevent the neuron from firing when the axon fires.

The tricky thing is that these are not fixed. They require neurotransmitters to work. The presence of a neurotransmitter at the synapse will switch it to a NOT.

As most people know (in fact, the issue is far too stressed and oversimplified), neurotransmitters are associated with emotions to some degree. Also, as everybody knows, they're systemic and go everywhere. You can take drugs that change how they work. Not always the level (that's an oversimplification), but things like how long they stick to a receptor, which uses the word "reuptake," or how quickly they are oxidized and excreted to the CSF.

So what happens is that, when an emotional state changes, the whole wiring changes essentially randomly, as NOT gates activate and deactivate here and there. This is very useful; being frustrated at a problem can literally change the logic of the brain. So it can function as kind of a search algorithm. If one state can't find a solution, perhaps another can.

It does mean, though, that people are fluctuating all the time. We don't usually notice it, though, because we normally also learn in all those states and the states between them, and we get memories about what we did, so it all seems pretty fluid.

But an unusually strong emotion from a trauma? Maybe something that's triggered by a particular memory or situation (with that same basic Hebbian mechanism). Well, all bets are off. You're back to randomly flipping switches.

I think that's probably why a lot of therapy involves going back an revisiting the problem. Maybe there's nothing that can actually be done about it to fix it, but maybe it builds a bridge between an unusual state and the usual ones and makes the experience more integrated and easier to connect to everything else.
 
Darn, all the good stuff is stated, there is strong evidence for DID, there is little to no evidence MPPD

In my limited experience, all people who claimed they had alters were people who also abused substances heavily and had traumatic brain injury.

I think as a behaviorist we all tend to exhibit different patterns under stress and trauma then our 'usual baseline'
 
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