Ebola in America

[dudalb]

Stopping flights from west Africa wont stop west Africans from going to other parts of Africa and flying out. In fact if you say, "we are going to shut down travel from west Africa" thousands of west Africans are going to try and flee the area.

Unless the entire world stopped flights out of all of Africa the sick will simply fly from another part to Europe, or Asia, or central America or any where else. Shutting down all of Africa is impossible.

Now it would be much much easier to close the border with Texas and stop all flights in and out of texas, blockade the ports and turn it into an containment area.

Wow, that will anger all the Dallas Cowboy fans......

 

[Kestrel]

No one is advocating stopping all flights from Africa;just those countries with a serious Ebola outbreak.
I am not sure how effective this would be,but to accuse anybody who advocates it as being xenophobic is a bit over the top . Seems to me that requiring a medical test before entry would be a resoanble compromise.

No flights from the affected nations come to the US. And even if the airports were closed, it will not stop someone who really wants to leave. Just cross the border by land and fly out of another country.

 

[dudalb]

Xenophobia or Ebolaphobia?

No doubt some of the flight ban advocates are Xenophobics,but not all.
I dislike immensly that the Ebola outbreak is becoming a political football.

 

[Giz]

No doubt some of the flight ban advocates are Xenophobics,but not all.
I dislike immensly that the Ebola outbreak is becoming a political football.

I'm not sure I can name anything that isn't a political football...

 

[Kestrel]

And Fair or not, the CDC head is probably toast. Mistakes have been made, and heads must roll for political reasons if no other.

The political response is predictable. Hold a Congressional hearing so House members can ask really stupid questions and get some good video for their next election campaign. Fire the head of the agency to further disrupt the only people with the skills to actually fight the problem.

 

[Biscuit]

No one is advocating stopping all flights from Africa;just those countries with a serious Ebola outbreak.
I am not sure how effective this would be,but to accuse anybody who advocates it as being xenophobic is a bit over the top . Seems to me that requiring a medical test before entry would be a resoanble compromise.

The people in those countries will just go to a different country and fly out. Border security isn't that great in Africa.

Medical tests would require holding everyone for 21 days to ensure they weren't infected. The logistic on that are insane.

The solution is to contain and cure IN Africa and put out the hot spots as the appear elsewhere.

 

[Biscuit]

No doubt some of the flight ban advocates are Xenophobics,but not all.
I dislike immensly that the Ebola outbreak is becoming a political football.

One of the republican House reps was questioning CDC reps this morning trying to blame the spread in America on EPA regulations and border security. There is no end to their political gamesmanship.

This is just to distract from Benghazi anyway.

 

[Dan O.]

Except that's based on one case and ignoring the several other carriers that were brought into the US for treatment and saw no transmissions.

Calm the hell down people.

The issue is whether the existence of Ebola spreading in the US is added cause to get a flu shot. I have asserted that there is because it reduces the liklehood that you would get caught up in a panic treating everybody that comes in with flu like symptoms as potential Ebola carriers.

Currently the infection rate in the US is greater than zero. We hope that it will be significantly less than 1. But I showed that with a rate even as low as 2 the consequences are going to be devastating. The speciality hospitals have shown effectiveness in preventing infections. But the geneal hospital in Dallas has shown that there is need for improvement.

 

[Ziggurat]

Stopping flights from west Africa wont stop west Africans from going to other parts of Africa and flying out.

True, but it will reduce the number of people from outbreak countries, and by making them take longer to get here (and don't forget, other African countries have stopped allowing flights from outbreak countries), they're also more likely to get caught by airport screening.

In fact if you say, "we are going to shut down travel from west Africa" thousands of west Africans are going to try and flee the area.

Thousands are already trying to flee.

Unless the entire world stopped flights out of all of Africa the sick will simply fly from another part to Europe, or Asia, or central America or any where else. Shutting down all of Africa is impossible.

Nobody is suggesting shutting down all of Africa. And the idea that if a measure isn't perfect then it's not worthwhile, which is essentially what your argument boils down to, is simply nonsense. There's a reason that other African countries have already taken this simple, sensible measure.

Now it would be much much easier to close the border with Texas and stop all flights in and out of texas, blockade the ports and turn it into an containment area.

Yeah, no. It's easy to shut down Texas airports. Closing the border of Texas would be a harder job than closing down the US-Mexico border (it would be fun to see Obama try, though). Seriously, the border of Texas with the rest of the US is about the same length as the border of the US with Mexico, but there are no existing checkpoints, there's a lot more roads, and the terrain is more hospitable. And again, we don't need to make it impossible to get from outbreak countries to the US in order for it to be worthwhile.

I'm sure that, given how completely stupid the idea of quarantining Texas is, you thought you'd illustrate how stupid you think banning air travel from outbreak countries would be, but your point fails because your claim is simply wrong.

 

[Dr. Keith]

But the geneal hospital in Dallas has shown that there is need for improvement.

I think you are unfairly lumping too many things into a single category. General Hospital and Dallas are completely different.

 

[dudalb]

What they really need to do is begin drilling Hospital attendents daily in how to correctly put on the protective suits. It's not enough to pratice once or twice;you need to have it drilled into you so the right procedures are second nature;and doing over and over agian is the only real way to do that.

 

[dudalb]

The people in those countries will just go to a different country and fly out. Border security isn't that great in Africa.

Medical tests would require holding everyone for 21 days to ensure they weren't infected. The logistic on that are insane.

The solution is to contain and cure IN Africa and put out the hot spots as the appear elsewhere.

100% agree.
Sad thing is no doubt some on the right will demand that we withdraw all help and personal from Africa.

 

[catsmate]

100% agree.
Sad thing is no doubt some on the right will demand that we withdraw all help and personal from Africa.

Quite probably. There are some really stupid people in US politics.

 

[marplots]

What's needed is something like Purel. Give the masses a placebo they can rely on. Placebos cure fear.

 

[Belz...]

Nobody is suggesting shutting down all of Africa.

I have this mental image of a gigantic switch we can throw to shut down the continent.

 

[Biscuit]

True, but it will reduce the number of people from outbreak countries, and by making them take longer to get here (and don't forget, other African countries have stopped allowing flights from outbreak countries), they're also more likely to get caught by airport screening.

No it will increase the number of people from outbreak countries trying to leave and it will scatter them far and wide. It makes the problem far worse.

Thousands are already trying to flee.

Evidence?

Nobody is suggesting shutting down all of Africa. And the idea that if a measure isn't perfect then it's not worthwhile, which is essentially what your argument boils down to, is simply nonsense. There's a reason that other African countries have already taken this simple, sensible measure.

Actually my argument is that shutting down part of Africa makes the situation worse and shutting down all of Africa is impossible.

Shutting down any part of it will create panic and cause people to flee in all directions to all parts of Africa, as far as they can go. As counter intuitive as it sounds the best way to contain the virus is to not isolate those countries. If you want to close down part of Africa you would have to shut it all down or you will only make the situation worse. Right now we know where the virus is, we can track and isolate, we can consolidate and allocate resources. You shut it down you lose all control.

Yeah, no. It's easy to shut down Texas airports. Closing the border of Texas would be a harder job than closing down the US-Mexico border (it would be fun to see Obama try, though). Seriously, the border of Texas with the rest of the US is about the same length as the border of the US with Mexico, but there are no existing checkpoints, there's a lot more roads, and the terrain is more hospitable. And again, we don't need to make it impossible to get from outbreak countries to the US in order for it to be worthwhile.

I'm sure that, given how completely stupid the idea of quarantining Texas is, you thought you'd illustrate how stupid you think banning air travel from outbreak countries would be, but your point fails because your claim is simply wrong.

I was actually being sarcastic as I started this thread by suggesting we bomb Texas.

 

[Biscuit]

100% agree.
Sad thing is no doubt some on the right will demand that we withdraw all help and personal from Africa.

I think we can all be assured that more hotspots will arise in the coming days, weeks, and months. It's inevitable but we must let cooler heads prevail. We can deal with this. We got caught of guard and so did Spain.

 

[Travis]

You have personal experience with ebola?

Thank goodness, no.

But I do know what it is like to be puking up blood and not want to go get medical help for it.

No one is advocating stopping all flights from Africa;just those countries with a serious Ebola outbreak.
I am not sure how effective this would be,but to accuse anybody who advocates it as being xenophobic is a bit over the top . Seems to me that requiring a medical test before entry would be a resoanble compromise.

What kind of medical test? Just checking them for a fever?

 

[dudalb]

I think we can all be assured that more hotspots will arise in the coming days, weeks, and months. It's inevitable but we must let cooler heads prevail. We can deal with this. We got caught of guard and so did Spain.

I suspect that inadequate training in how to use protective gear was behind the Health Service worker who came down with Ebola. I bet it is something that is not praticied or drilled very often. That needs to change. And the way is simple:have practices in how to safely don protective gear on a regular basis;drill,drill drill on the procedures until it's second nature.
Military, Police and Fire personnel over the world use that technique of constant drills for one good reason:IT works.

 

[Kestrel]

I think we can all be assured that more hotspots will arise in the coming days, weeks, and months. It's inevitable but we must let cooler heads prevail. We can deal with this. We got caught of guard and so did Spain.

If you listen to the press, Ebola is easier to catch than the flu. Somehow they missed the fact the none of the people living with Duncan before he was isolated managed to catch the disease. The two hospital staffers caught it when Duncan's disease had progressed to a later stage with a much higher risk of infection.

Yes, I know that it is not yet 21 days since Duncan was isolated. But the onset of symptoms follows a bell curve and the probability that these people will only now start showing signs of infection is quite low.