• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Continuation Part 10: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

Status
Not open for further replies.
A good feeling, ok.

Based on what information? Should you not at least need to know the basis of her libel appeal?

Why does Amanda go to NYC?

Probably for a number of reasons.

Personally, if I wanted to find a lawyer to file an ECHR application to dispose of a cabal of jerkoffs in Italy, I would look in NYC. But that's just me.
 
The question is why you attempt climbings on glass and to make up falsehoods at any turn. It's a real mystery to me why you try to make up things even out of quotes (alleged quotes of quotes) like this one.
There is nothing here saying Stefanoni is missing something.
Even less letters or PhDs.

If someone gave her a phd they should be mortified, and probably have their certification yanked. That woman is a disgrace.
 
Similarities and differences

Do you believe the NYC law enforcement and justice system demonstrated American justice at its best, regarding the Central Park Five? Should we judge the entire American justice system based on the Central Park Five, where was the transparency whilst this case worked its way through the NY justice system?
I am not as familiar with this case as I am with some. However, it seems to have been a media-fueled frenzy, and it is clear that the interrogations produced false confessions. IMO it was absolutely not the criminal justice system at its best. In short, it is case from which to learn and a case that should have sparked some reforms (I doubt that it engendered as many reforms as it should have; the lifetime of outrage over such cases is too short).

However, I don't recall anyone suing the parents of the wrongfully accused men, nor the men themselves. In addition, I know of no legal attempts to stifle reporters in their attempt to cover this story. Again, let's have a race to the top. The Central Park 5 should be enough to convince anyone and everyone of the universal need to record the whole interrogation, not just an elicited confession (IIUC if one just listens to the confessions, they don't give any indication of what went on before: link). The present case could have been a case from which Italy could have learned the value of open discovery, for example.

EDT
"'Oh, the police are lying,' [Michael] Warren says. 'Absolutely. I've spoken to the parents, I've spoken to our clients, and I've seen the effect on them when they begin to tell the story of what was done to them during the interrogations: They break down. So I don't have any question as to their version of what took place.'" link Who is suing Mr. Warren?
 
Last edited:
A good feeling, ok.

Based on what information? Should you not at least need to know the basis of her libel appeal?

Why does Amanda go to NYC?

We can tell from her press release that she is pursuing Art 6 claims for violation of her procedural rights and for coercion. She also likely has an Art 3 claim for inhumane treatment.

After the Grand Council rules in Bouyid that the police aren't allowed to slap interogees it's going to be show on.
 
This is total bull Machiavelli. The reality is that gastric emptying is actually a fairly precise science. There is a range for what is normal and what is not.

Try this simple piece of reasoning. If you are ready to accept "90" as the most likely figure, and you accept a 10% an expected error, in order to be consistent you should not - at the same time - say that "100" would be an unacceptable figure, given that it is only about 10% distant from what you accepted as the "most likely" figure.

The statement "gastric emptying" is a "fairly precise" sceince gets very objectionable when the person declaring it tries to apply "science" while ignoring some elementary principles of statistics.

I see people invoking statistic figures from science about gastric emptying, in order to "accomodate extremes" (according to them). But then what they actually do is to choose a number of values which are in fact extreme figures, at the extreme of average probability and forcing the extreme limits of the given information, as their starting point, and they consider these as the "most likely" figures.

But if these are the "most likely" figures, they also must be at the center of a possible range of tolerance. And the whole previous assumption is undermined; the previous paradigm should be put in discussion, and the new paradigm should be: the given information is we have some values that are surely abnormal or unusual, we have this information for sure (which is more information than what we have in the average generic circumstance), so we have these unfrequent figures for sure, independently from how freqently they occur in the average study; the reasoning so is to be set around the actual information, not on the generic studies and absolute average.
 
Last edited:
We have been through Stefanoni's lack of qualifications before

The question is why you attempt climbings on glass and to make up falsehoods at any turn. It's a real mystery to me why you try to make up things even out of quotes (alleged quotes of quotes) like this one.
There is nothing here saying Stefanoni is missing something.
Even less letters or PhDs.
The quote I provided comes from p. 268 in Nina Burleigh's book. Do you have any documentation showing that Stefanoni has a PhD?
 
The quote I provided comes from p. 268 in Nina Burleigh's book. Do you have any documentation showing that Stefanoni has a PhD?

But the quote says nothing of the sort that you mean.
I have no direct documentation (I never investigated to find it) but I have documentation that Stefanoni had worked eight years at the University of Naples within research projects which in Italy are always bond to PhDs, and I also know that she is the author of very successfull publications. I make the reasonable inference that she has a PhD, because any person who worked as an assistent professor for eight years in Italy would have a PhD.
 
But the quote says nothing of the sort that you mean.
I have no direct documentation (I never investigated to find it) but I have documentation that Stefanoni had worked eight years at the University of Naples within research projects which in Italy are always bond to PhDs, and I also know that she is the author of very successfull publications. I make the reasonable inference that she has a PhD, because any person who worked as an assistent professor for eight years in Italy would have a PhD.
The only publication I recall seeing with Stefanoni's name on it had to do with response to disasters. Stefanoni helped to identify victims of the 2004 Tsunami, IIRC. Can you produce other citations, preferably something more directly related to DNA forensics?
 
Last edited:
But the quote says nothing of the sort that you mean.
I have no direct documentation (I never investigated to find it) but I have documentation that Stefanoni had worked eight years at the University of Naples within research projects which in Italy are always bond to PhDs, and I also know that she is the author of very successfull publications. I make the reasonable inference that she has a PhD, because any person who worked as an assistent professor for eight years in Italy would have a PhD.


Interesting that well respected retired Italian Judge Edoardo Mori claims many 'experts' in Italy don't even have college degree's!! Amongst other titillating revelations. Are you going to dispute Moris claims Mach?

http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/e-giudice-si-tolse-toga-non-sopportavo-pi-l-idiozia-troppi.html

" The police system, the treatment of the accused and the relationship between Prosecutors and the Courts are all stuck in the 1930's. All suspects are considered to be criminals, citizens are treated like dirt, often questioning degenerates into violence. The Prosecutor plays to the Commissioner and the Judge thinks it is his duty to support the activities of the Prosecutor."

" Even you can become an expert. Just find a friend that is Court appointed. Courts are full of spin doctors who pride themselves on being able to deliver any material from graphology to fingerprints. Often they do not even have a college degree. Italian experts blatantly blunder and continue to be called by Prosecutors then repeat offending undeterred as if nothing happened. "
 
Last edited:
Interesting that well respected retired Italian Judge Edoardo Mori claims many 'experts' in Italy don't even have college degree's!! Amongst other titillating revelations. Are you going to dispute Moris claims Mach?

http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/e-giudice-si-tolse-toga-non-sopportavo-pi-l-idiozia-troppi.html

" The police system, the treatment of the accused and the relationship between Prosecutors and the Courts are all stuck in the 1930's. All suspects are considered to be criminals, citizens are treated like dirt, often questioning degenerates into violence. The Prosecutor plays to the Commissioner and the Judge thinks it is his duty to support the activities of the Prosecutor."

" Even you can become an expert. Just find a friend that is Court appointed. Courts are full of spin doctors who pride themselves on being able to deliver any material from graphology to fingerprints. Often they do not even have a college degree. Italian experts blatantly blunder and continue to be called by Prosecutors then repeat offending undeterred as if nothing happened. "

Anyone can be called to testify as an expert witness, even people without a college degree. "Expert" only indicate the status of a witness in a trial.

But Stefanoni is not just an "expert"; she is a chief executive at the Genetics laboratory of the Polizia Scientifica and belongs to the staff a Molecular Biologist.
 
The only publication I recall seeing with Stefanoni's name on it had to do with response to disasters. Stefanoni helped to identify victims of the 2004 Tsunami, IIRC. Can you produce other citations, preferably something more directly related to DNA forensics?

This has nothing to do with the question of whether Stefanoni has a PhD or not. I make a point that the innocentisti here are making unreasonable and unproven assertions. Someone goes on saying Stefanoni hasn't a PhD. This statement is unrealistic, besides unproven, and a reasonable person should just retract it, instead of shifting discussion on other topics.
 
still waiting on the CV

This has nothing to do with the question of whether Stefanoni has a PhD or not. I make a point that the innocentisti here are making unreasonable and unproven assertions. Someone goes on saying Stefanoni hasn't a PhD. This statement is unrealistic, besides unproven, and a reasonable person should just retract it, instead of shifting discussion on other topics.
Machiavelli,

You wrote, "...and I also know that she is the author of very successfull publications. I make the reasonable inference that she has a PhD..." You brought it up, and you made the claim that Ms. Stefanoni has a Ph.D. Do you have a copy of her CV?
 
Anyone can be called to testify as an expert witness, even people without a college degree. "Expert" only indicate the status of a witness in a trial.

But Stefanoni is not just an "expert"; she is a chief executive at the Genetics laboratory of the Polizia Scientifica and belongs to the staff a Molecular Biologist.

Reminds me very much of the Phd in Satanism from a non accredited college with the West Memphis Three case. . .
 
We can tell from her press release that she is pursuing Art 6 claims for violation of her procedural rights and for coercion. She also likely has an Art 3 claim for inhumane treatment.

After the Grand Council rules in Bouyid that the police aren't allowed to slap interogees it's going to be show on.

Hope I'm not coming across as a dunce, but what is the Grand Council, what is Bouyld, and do we have an idea when might these things actually occur?
 
Machiavelli,

You wrote, "...and I also know that she is the author of very successfull publications. I make the reasonable inference that she has a PhD..." You brought it up, and you made the claim that Ms. Stefanoni has a Ph.D. Do you have a copy of her CV?

I wrote fre posts up that I don't have a copy of her CV, I never asked her for nor investigated the topic.
But I maintain that, whoever states she does not have a PhD will come across as someone making unreasonable claims, because the claim is obviously unsupported and unrealistic.

Yes she is the author of very successful publications. For example,
" COLD CASES – NEW TECHNOLOGY FOR DNA ANALYSIS ALLOW THE REOPENING AND SOLUTION OF OLD UNSOLVED CRIMES "
Caglià, A., Stefanoni, P., La Rosa, A.

affiliation: Ministry of the Interior, Public Security Department, Italian National Police, Anticrime Central Directorate, Forensic Science Police Service, Rome, Italy

(publication Presented the World Congress of the International Society for Forensic Genetics (ISFG), August 29–September 3, 2011, University of Vienna, Austria)
 
We can tell from her press release that she is pursuing Art 6 claims for violation of her procedural rights and for coercion. She also likely has an Art 3 claim for inhumane treatment.

After the Grand Council rules in Bouyid that the police aren't allowed to slap interogees it's going to be show on.

Actually, all what we wonder is why she doesn't make her her ECHR submission public, like she did with other submissions from her ongoing trial.

But maybe we all know why, don't we
 
peerless

Yes she is the author of very successful publications. For example,
" COLD CASES – NEW TECHNOLOGY FOR DNA ANALYSIS ALLOW THE REOPENING AND SOLUTION OF OLD UNSOLVED CRIMES "
Caglià, A., Stefanoni, P., La Rosa, A.

affiliation: Ministry of the Interior, Public Security Department, Italian National Police, Anticrime Central Directorate, Forensic Science Police Service, Rome, Italy

(publication Presented the World Congress of the International Society for Forensic Genetics (ISFG), August 29–September 3, 2011, University of Vienna, Austria)
Is that a publication in the peer-reviewed literature, or is it a presentation at a conference?

You haven't put forward anything resembling a convincing case that she is anything other than a bachelor's level technician with some experience beyond that.
 
Last edited:
Regardless that this letter sent to the Hellmann Court is anonymous ( and we know all the reasons why it is so) whomever penned it is, or was, undoubtably employed at the very Laboratory Stefanoni presides over. A damning indictment on the whole outfit!

The Italian version for Machiavelli

AL PRESIDENTE DEL TRIBUNALE DI PERUGIA
AI PERITI DEL TRIBUNALE DI PERUGIA DOTT.SSA VECCHIOTTI E DOTT. CONTI
AI CONSULENTI DELLE PARTI AL CORRIERE DELL’UMBRIA 20/09/2011
No Protocolli??? Ahi, ahi, ahi ...
In relazione alla lettera a firma del Direttore della Polizia Scientifica e del modo di lavoro usato da loro in tutta Italia, potrebbe interessargli sapere che:
1. La lettera indirizzata alla Corte di Perugia è stata forse tratta dagli atti del convegno a
cui ha partecipato lo stesso autore ad Urbino nel Maggio 2011? Già li dice che “si potrebbe arrivare ad ottenere un profilo di DNA nei casi più complessi dove ancora oggi l’esito dell’analisi è negativo” si, in maniera da ingarbugliarli ancora di più.
2. I numeri di sopralluoghi (“4500”) non possono essere riferiti alla polizia scientifica di Roma (sono troppi), ma nemmeno a tutta la scientifica italiana (sono troppo pochi) e quindi non si capisce a cosa siano riferiti. Ciò non stupisce perché non esistono i programmi informatici per la raccolta ed il conteggio dei dati su tutto il territorio. La raccolta dei dati infatti non è uniforme, manca di un protocollo operativo, e nessuno verifica i dati che arrivano da tutta Italia.
3. Non ci sono modalità uniformi e restrittive nemmeno per la raccolta e la conservazione delle tracce più semplici. Non esistono check list di alcun tipo. Non vengono fatti i controlli incrociati su medesimi campioni, così da verificare l’attendibilità del dato fornito da un laboratorio rispetto a un altro. Su nessun tipo di analisi, non solo per il DNA.
4. Nella missiva il direttore del servizio di Polizia Scientifica ha dichiarato come i laboratori e gli uffici siano dotati di certificati di qualità, sottolineando a testimonianza la presenza di “252 documenti prescrittivi e audit condotti da società specializzate esterne anche di livello Europeo”. Il Direttore forse dimentica (o non sa) che i documenti prescrittivi contengono delle prescrizioni, cioè delle correzioni da fare per avere la certificazione richiesta, perché nelle procedure c’è qualcosa che non va.
5. “La scientifica - ha scritto ancora nella lettera Angeloni - è dotata di un sistema informatico di tracciabilità dei reperti, le apparecchiature tecniche sono all’avanguardia ed il personale ha esperienza pluriennale”. Questa è un’affermazione senza significato, per due motivi: a) i reperti sono tracciati solo quando arrivano a Roma e prima non si sa nulla di loro, nemmeno se sono stati chiusi quando raccolti, o poco prima di essere ricevuti (visto che se aperti non vengono accettati, per non sapere cosa succede prima e scaricarsi ogni responsabilità). Quando sui reperti devono essere fatti più esami (es. residui dello sparo, balistici, biologici, impronte, ecc.) è prassi che si aprano le scatole o i contenitori in cui tutto il materiale è stato confezionato e si proceda, prima che venga fissata la data di inizio delle operazioni, allo “smaltimento casalingo” dei reperti, come se si riferissero a casi diversi. In questo modo è altissima la possibilità di perdere importanti informazioni su reperti che magari qualcuno decide autonomamente di destinare alla analisi balistica piuttosto che ai residui dello sparo.
6. Poi dice “Mai in passato sono stati avanzati rilievi di tale natura, che in questa sede investono l’operato della polizia scientifica”, ma anche questo non è vero. I problemi ci sono sempre quando c’è un confronto, quando ci sono dei consulenti coi quali bisogna confrontarsi anche sul piano scientifico. Infatti quando si inventano delle analisi non standardizzate a livello internazionale (come ad esempio l’analisi col carbonio 14 sui
pizzini più famosi d’Italia), magari valide ma prive di qualunque controllo scientifico, è
chiaro che si può dire quello che si vuole!
7. La Polizia Scientifica della periferia non è dotata di apparecchiature a norma. Basta
pensare al frigo/congelatori in uso: sono quelli alimentari! Gli stessi dispositivi di protezione e di sicurezza non vengono acquistati per mancanza di fondi. Le tute? Si usano solo quando ci sono le telecamere. Le mascherine e le cuffie? Si indossano solo se ci sono periti ed avvocati! I guanti? Non bisogna sprecarli e le raccomandazioni sono di usarli fino a che non si rompono!!
8. La catena di custodia dei reperti (di qualunque genere, si pensi a cosa è successo col caso di unabomber) non è garantita. In più non ci sono buste di sicurezza a sufficienza e scatole per contenere il materiale che si raccoglie quando si fa un sopralluogo. Chiunque può mettere mano ai reperti.
9. La refrigerazione dei reperti non è assicurata, nè tracciata. Spesso infatti, la disorganizzazione e le cattive informazioni che gli specialisti (ma quali??) dispensano col contagocce a chi opera su strada, rendono non corretta la raccolta del reperto stesso che finisce con l’ammuffire. In più i reperti, quando prelevati dalla polizia, sono portati via sempre aperti e poi asciugati in locali non idonei. Non esistono infatti in dotazione ai vari uffici apparecchiature certificate per l’asciugatura dei reperti, che vengono fatti asciugare gli uni vicino agli altri su degli stendini casalinghi nei locali di lavoro.
10.La pulizia di strumenti e superfici per il DNA viene di norma effettuata soltanto con alcool e mai verificata con i bianchi di controllo. I bianchi mancano anche ogni qualvolta si prelevi un campione di DNA ... e non solo.
11.Quando il risultato biologico non è quello sperato, l’amplificazione della traccia (??) viene spinta oltre ogni ragionevole indicazione scientifica e si procede fino a quando non si trova qualcosa (??). Sarà anche per questo che il risultato è sempre la presenza di misti incogniti?
12.Il consulente della procura, durante le operazioni dei periti rileva che il ciclatore non è posto sotto cappa, al contrario di come è nel laboratorio della polizia. Questo non è il posto giusto, perché è altissima la probabilità che ci sia contaminazione se messo sotto una cappa qualsiasi.
13.La strumentazione definita così “altamente specialistica” dal direttore Angeloni è in molti casi priva di qualsiasi contratto di assistenza e, in caso guasto, rimane ferma per mesi e mesi.
14.Il prelievo biologico viene sempre distrutto completamente, senza garantire la ripetibilità dell’accertamento, il più delle volte possibile, come invece avviene in tutti i paesi civili del mondo.
15.Va di moda risolvere i casi freddi. E’ facile attribuendo i profili a persone decedute o facendo diventare utili delle impronte che al momento del fatto erano giudicate non utili.
16.La polizia che si dice scientifica non è dotata di biblioteca adeguata e non fornisce a quanti operano nei diversi settori, la possibilità di informarsi su riviste scientifiche internazionali. Basta vedere quale è la formazione del direttore Angeloni. E’ forse uno scienziato? E’ forse un ricercatore? E’ forse uno specialista nel settore?
17.In definitiva, su nessun argomento esistono direttive chiare che fanno riferimento a modalità di lavoro riconosciute da tutti gli investigatori scientifici a livello mondiale.
Ciliegina sulla torta ... la polizia cosa fa? Premia investigatori e scienziati (che “hanno risolto” a modo loro il caso Kercher con encomi e lodi! Proprio Bravi!!!!)

An English google version tidied up by Luca Cheli. His comments are in parenthesis.

TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE COURT OF PERUGIA
TO THE EXPERTS OF THE COURT OF PERUGIA DR.VECCHIOTTI AND DR.CONTI
TO THE CONSULTANTS OF THE PARTIES
TO THE CORRIERE DELL'UMBRIA 20/09/2011
No Protocols?? Ouch, ouch, ouch ...
With reference to the letter signed by the Director of the Scientific Police and to the way of working used by them throughout Italy, it may be of interest to you [more meaningful, there is probably a mistake in the original] to know that:
1. The letter addressed to the Court of Perugia was perhaps taken from the proceedings of the conference attended by the author himself in Urbino in May 2011? Already there [in that conference] he says "this could lead to obtain a DNA profile in more complex cases in which still to this day the outcome is negative" yeah right, in such a way as to **** them up even more.
2. The numbers of surrveys ("4500") cannot be referred to the scientific police in Rome (too many), but also not to the entire Italian Scientific Police (too few) and hence you do not understand what they are referred to. This is not surprising because there are no IT programs for the collection and counting of the data on the whole territory. The collection of data is not uniform in fact, it lacks an operational protocol, and no verification of the data arriving from all over Italy is done.
3. There are no uniform and mandatory procedures, not even for the collection and preservation of the most basic traces. There is no checklist of any kind. Cross-checkings are not made on the same samples, so as to verify the reliability of the data provided by a laboratory with respect to another. On any kind of analysis, not just for DNA.
4. In the letter, the Director of the Scientific Police affirmed that laboratories and offices are provided with certificates of quality, pointing out as evidence the presence of "252 regulatory documents and audits conducted by external specialist firms, [some] even of European level." The Director perhaps forgets (or does not know) that the documents contain prescriptive requirements, i.e. the corrections to be made to have the requested certification, because in the [current] procedures there is something wrong.
5. "The scientific [police]- also wrote Angeloni in the letter- is equipped with a computerized traceability of the exhibits, the technical equipment is cutting-edge and the staff has many years of experience." This statement is meaningless, for two reasons: a) the exhibits are traced only when they arrive in Rome and before that you know nothing about them, not even if they were sealed when collected, or [if they were sealed] shortly before being received (because if opened [not sealed] they are not accepted, in order not to know what happens before and discharge all liability). When on the exhibits more than one test must be made (e.g. residues of the shot, ballistic, biological, fingerprints, etc.) it is practice that the boxes or containers in which all the material was packaged are opened and, before the date for beginning the operations is established, one goes on with the "household disposal" [not clear what it is, probably jargon] of the exhibits, as though they were relative to different cases. In this way it is very high the possibility of losing important information about exhibits that maybe someone decides arbitrarily to allocate to the ballistics analysis rather than to that of the residues of the shot.
6. Then he says, "Never in the past remarks of this kind have been raised, which herein attack the work of the scientific police," but even that is not true. The problems are always there when there is a confrontation [contrast], when there are consultants with whom one has to vie also in the scientific domain. In fact, when they [the scientific police] invent analysis not internationally standardized (as for example the analysis with carbon-14 on the most famous pizzini in Italy [pizzini=messages on pieces of paper, probably the author is referring to those of Mafia don Bernardo Provenzano]), perhaps valid but lacking any scientific scrutiny, it is clear that you can say what you want!
7. The Scientific Police of the periphery is not equipped with standardized equipment. Just think of the fridge/freezers in use: they are those used for food! The protective and safety equipments themselves and are not bought for lack of funds. The suits? They are used only when there are TV cameras around. Masks and hoods? You wear them only if there are consultants and lawyers around! The gloves? One must not waste them and the recommendations are of using them until they break up!
8. The chain of custody of evidence (of any kind, think of what happened with the case of Unabomber [the Italian one, unknown to this day]) is not guaranteed. Moreover there are not enough security envelopes and boxes to contain the material that is collected when you make a site visit. Anyone can play around with the exhibits.
9. The refrigeration of the exhibits is not assured, nor traced. Often, indeed, the disorganization and the bad information that the specialists (but what specialists??) trickle down to those who work on the field, make wrong the collection [procedure] of the exhibit itself that ends up moldy. Moreover the exhibits, when picked up by the police, are always taken away open and then dried in unsuitable premises. Indeed certified equipment for drying the exhibits is not supplied to the various bureaux [offices], so they [the exhibits] are allowed to dry near each other on drying racks of the household type in working rooms [practically in the offices].
10.The cleaning of tools and surfaces for DNA [against contamination] is normally carried out only with alcohol and never checked with the white [blank?] control. The white [controls or blank controls] lack even whenever you fetch a DNA sample ... and not just that.
11.When the biological result is not as hoped, the amplification of the trace (??[what trace??]) is pushed beyond any reasonable scientific recommendation and will go on until something (??[what??]) is found. May this be the reason why the result is always the presence of mixed unknown subjects?
12.The consultant of the prosecution [Stefanoni], during the operations of the [independent] experts points out that the cycler is not under the extractor fan, as opposed to how it is in the police lab. This [the one in the police lab] is not the right place, because the probability is very high that there is contamination if [the cycler] is placed under an extractor fan whatsoever [e.g. not specialistic].
13.The instrumentation defined as "highly specialized" by the director Angeloni is in many cases without any service contract and, in case of failure, left idle for months and months.
14.The biological sample is always completely destroyed, without ensuring the repeatability of the test, which would be possible most of the times, as it is the case in all civilized countries of the world.
15.It is fashionable to solve cold cases. It is easy [to do that by] assigning [DNA] profiles to deceased people or by classifying as useful fingerprints that had been judged useless at the time of the fact [crime].
16.The police which qualify itself as scientific is not equipped with an adequate library and does not provide for those who work in the various sectors, the possibility of obtaining information on international scientific journals. Just look at what is the formation of the Director Angeloni. Is he perhaps a scientist? Is he perhaps a researcher? Is he perhaps a specialist of the sector?
17.In short, on no topic there are clear guidelines which take as reference the working methods recognized by all scientific investigators worldwide.
The icing on the cake ... What does the police do? They give awards to the investigators and scientists (who have "solved" in their own way the Kercher case) with accolades and praises! Just Bravi!! [parentheses repositioned to what probably is the correct position]
 
Last edited:
Try this simple piece of reasoning. If you are ready to accept "90" as the most likely figure, and you accept a 10% an expected error, in order to be consistent you should not - at the same time - say that "100" would be an unacceptable figure, given that it is only about 10% distant from what you accepted as the "most likely" figure.

The statement "gastric emptying" is a "fairly precise" sceince gets very objectionable when the person declaring it tries to apply "science" while ignoring some elementary principles of statistics.

I see people invoking statistic figures from science about gastric emptying, in order to "accomodate extremes" (according to them). But then what they actually do is to choose a number of values which are in fact extreme figures, at the extreme of average probability and forcing the extreme limits of the given information, as their starting point, and they consider these as the "most likely" figures.

But if these are the "most likely" figures, they also must be at the center of a possible range of tolerance. And the whole previous assumption is undermined; the previous paradigm should be put in discussion, and the new paradigm should be: the given information is we have some values that are surely abnormal or unusual, we have this information for sure (which is more information than what we have in the average generic circumstance), so we have these unfrequent figures for sure, independently from how freqently they occur in the average study; the reasoning so is to be set around the actual information, not on the generic studies and absolute average.

You are the one that is ignoring statistics, not me. You are using the exception to prove guilt. Which I find mystifying. If there is a 90 percent chance based on gastric emptying that Meredith died before 9:30 and this TOD is also confirmed in Rudy's first statement, why would you or anyone go searching for another TOD? Particularly when the concept of jurisprudence even in a ass backwards country like Italy is that the defendant is to be given the benefit of the doubt?

I don't get it. Your argument is incredibly dishonest,
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom