Merged New telepathy test: which number did I write ?

[Daylightstar]

Actually, the Belgian police from Zaventem (this is the municipality where I live in Belgium) has always been respectful with respect to my impression of being telepathically persecuted, to a degree which even almost surprised me, in 1999, and again when I talked about this with a police officer about a month ago. They have never told me for example "this is a disease, you should take medications", stuff like that.

If in fact those police have been dealing with your claim of telepathic prosecution, it's most likely that they considered the possibility of you being volatile and acted accordingly by preventatively pacifying you, which may be mistaken by you as support for your position, but is in fact not.

Latent volatility > pacification

You will hav a completely different experience of such a situation.

 

[Pixel42]

A less charitable interpretation is certainly that the psychiatrist considered the patient a risk to whomever he believed was telepathically persecuting him and wanted the police involved for that reason, but in that case I would have thought he would have alerted them himself rather than manipulating the patient into doing so. Unless it was a way of getting round the doctor/patient confidentiality thing.

ETA: I'm really not comfortable discussing the reasons for a psychiatrist's choice of treatment of a diagnosed schizophrenic so I'm going to drop out of this aspect of the conversation.

 

[Michel H]

A less charitable interpretation is certainly that the psychiatrist considered the patient a risk to whomever he believed was telepathically persecuting him and wanted the police involved for that reason, but in that case I would have thought he would have alerted them himself rather than manipulating the patient into doing so. Unless it was a way of getting round the doctor/patient confidentiality thing.

ETA: I'm really not comfortable discussing the reasons for a psychiatrist's choice of treatment of a diagnosed schizophrenic so I'm going to drop out of this aspect of the conversation.

But, these psychiatrists did not "diagnose me as schizophrenic" (if I remember correctly at least), they talked to me in a respectful way, like to a normal person. I got the impression that the first psychiatrist (the one of 1998) had an interest in my case, and was curious to see what happens when a person who believes he or she hears hostile telepathic voices tries to get help from the justice system. As to my GPs, the first one encouraged me to study telepathy, and the second one proposed me medications (which I refused), and asked me if I was a "telepathic genius".

 

[turingtest]

Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
This is exactly right. Michel isn't testing telepathy, he's testing his faith in it, and looking for "credible" ways to bias the results so he can maintain that faith.

I agree, but why the need to "test" it at all? Lack of complete faith? But then, if you want to test something because you aren't certain it is correct, why not do so accurately?
But then again, logic is probably not the best way to analyze this.

"Testing," in the sense and to the extent which Michel is doing it, would probably be more accurately rendered as "seeking confirmation for." He's admitted, several times, to throwing out "test" results which don't tell him what he wants to hear; and his seeking "credibility" criteria is just more evidence of this madness in his method.

 

[phunk]

Actually, the Belgian police from Zaventem (this is the municipality where I live in Belgium) has always been respectful with respect to my impression of being telepathically persecuted, to a degree which even almost surprised me, in 1999, and again when I talked about this with a police officer about a month ago. They have never told me for example "this is a disease, you should take medications", stuff like that.

Based on your inability to detect sarcasm, I'm going to assume you also did not detect that the police were simply humoring you.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

I doubt that this is true. As Michel has already stated more than once on this thread, there is not one person on this entire mudball that he would trust to give honest answers, which is why he has specifically refused to do room to room tests. EVERYBODY, except him, are lying about his ability. (His self deleted post, which I managed to read before he deleted it went into this in much more detail - I did not realise that I would need a capture at the time, so it no longer exists)

His capacity to understand humour/sarcasm is zero, because he simply does not understand it in any way, shape or form. In his world everybody is out to get him.

Norm

After skimming through the thread, I'm inclined to agree.

I'd suggest for future discussions with Michel the avoidance of sarcasm/dry wit to save future headaches.

Michel have you considered doing this test with a specific word instead? [Forgive me if you addressed this already]

 

[Giordano]

In reading this thread, I have become convinced that Michel H will always conclude that any properly devised test, one that would show that he was not telepathic, will be considered a failure by him. He knows that he is telepathic. The only oddity is that he still feels the need to "test it" in such a way as to yield a positive results that matches his pre-existing belief.

I am pleased that the local police, and at least some of his doctors, have been polite as they tried to help Michel H "within their job descriptions." I hope that he has found a good environment in which to live even while believing that he is telepathic. My only concern is that he also reports that voices tell him to kill himself and that he blames his thoughts for causing bad events in the world. This must be terrible and is much more serious than simply believing that other people hear your thoughts. I can only urge Michel H to find people (professionals and others) who can help him avoid these awful ideas. Given his ability to misunderstand what people are telling him, I will also clearly add that there is no evidence that he can transmit his thoughts, and lots of evidence that his other beliefs are delusions. But given that he is unlikely to believe me on that, I can only urge that he seek a way to live more happily given his core beliefs.

 

[fromdownunder]

No, this is incorrect, SezMe did give two credibility ratings, equal to about -3.83 and 9.00. I invite you to try to do the same.

Note: If you are new to this thread, please take a look here.

No, he gave you -3.8309 and 9.000000034, and then did not say which answer was to which statement. So you don't even know what his response means, and need to "guess" what statement each of the numbers was referring to.and you call that data.

So that is not data, it is made up numbers and utterly useless information, exactly as SezMe intended it to be.

Norm

 

[fromdownunder]

But, these psychiatrists did not "diagnose me as schizophrenic" (if I remember correctly at least), they talked to me in a respectful way, like to a normal person.

As a worker in the Welfare industry, I can assure you that we treat all our clients with respect and dignity, and more so with those diagnosed with mental illnesses, of which we have many. And we do not talk down to them ever. I would be highly surprised if psychiatrists, GP's or Police were taught any differently.

Norm

 

[SezMe]

I'd suggest for future discussions with Michel the avoidance of sarcasm/dry wit to save future headaches.

I take this to heart. I think Michel's problem is sufficiently serious that having fun with him is not only counterproductive, it might be harmful.

Michel: My post #1738 was pure nonsense. Nothing else. I was trying to demonstrate to you how meaningless your current line of inquiry is.

Do NOT attach any significance to the numbers in that post. They were purely random numbers I pulled out of my anal cavity. Those numbers have NO significance relative to the "test" you are trying to undertake.

In fact, I apologize to you for pulling your leg. Please take the oft repeated advice given in this thread by many posters to get some professional help with your mental problems. I know it can help because I am currently under a psychiatrists care for my own (much different) mental problems.

Sincerely,
SezMe

 

[Michel H]

Based on your inability to detect sarcasm, I'm going to assume you also did not detect that the police were simply humoring you.

Perhaps this is what happened in your imaginary skeptical world, but this is not at all what happened in reality (these Flemish people from the police, here in Zaventem, are very serious). Actually, at the beginning of the criminal justice process back in 1999, I got a visit in my home by the assistant commissioner of the local police, who first argued to me that they could not intervene in such psychic issues ("of people talking nastily into a person's head using telepathy") "because thinking is free, and it cannot be controlled" (later, however, another police officer told me on the phone they would do an inquiry; even later, however, they took me to the local hospital, and the "inquiry" collapsed, as I have explained). During the conversation with the assistant commissioner, he did not "humor me" at all, and at no time, did he say that people were actually not talking in my head, and that this was just some mental disease (but, remember, I was then supported by psychiatrists, until they changed their mind, somewhat like Loss Leader on this forum).

 

[Michel H]

I take this to heart. I think Michel's problem is sufficiently serious that having fun with him is not only counterproductive, it might be harmful.

Michel: My post #1738 was pure nonsense. Nothing else. I was trying to demonstrate to you how meaningless your current line of inquiry is.

Do NOT attach any significance to the numbers in that post. They were purely random numbers I pulled out of my anal cavity. Those numbers have NO significance relative to the "test" you are trying to undertake.

In fact, I apologize to you for pulling your leg. Please take the oft repeated advice given in this thread by many posters to get some professional help with your mental problems. I know it can help because I am currently under a psychiatrists care for my own (much different) mental problems.

Sincerely,
SezMe

Thank you for this post, SezMe. However, I take it with a grain of salt . Your post resembles somewhat Loss Leader's post 1750:

For the record, I was lying about having any indication of knowing what number you were thinking of. I lied because I thought it was funny. I lied to make you look foolish. I saw no number in my mind and did not even guess a number. I just hit a key.

All of my responses to any of your tests have been lies.

If I were you, I would discard all my responses as not being credible.

Now, the question is: If a moderator of a paranormal forum has no credibility, let alone special credibility, how can any person's credibility be assessed?

 

[Michel H]

After skimming through the thread, I'm inclined to agree.

I'd suggest for future discussions with Michel the avoidance of sarcasm/dry wit to save future headaches.

Michel have you considered doing this test with a specific word instead? [Forgive me if you addressed this already]

My most recent test was actually done with letters: https://fr.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140825120529AAHUZOi (in French). I have also done at least one test with words, but it did not give good results (probably because words have too much meaning, so people have a tendency to favor the meanings they like).

 

[Michel H]

No, he gave you -3.8309 and 9.000000034, and then did not say which answer was to which statement. So you don't even know what his response means, and need to "guess" what statement each of the numbers was referring to.and you call that data.

So that is not data, it is made up numbers and utterly useless information, exactly as SezMe intended it to be.

Norm

There may be some truth in what you said, fromdownunder, but, at the same time, it seems to me that you are somewhat distorting SezMe's post, in order to make it agree with your skeptical beliefs (or, more exactly stated beliefs).

 

[dlorde]

...I have also done at least one test with words, but it did not give good results (probably because words have too much meaning, so people have a tendency to favor the meanings they like).

Or, more likely, because telepathy doesn't exist.

I wonder just what it is you're trying to achieve with these tests, and how many negative results it will take for you to realise you're mistaken about telepathy.

If the effect is as strong as you seem to believe it is, then you should be able to demonstrate it without resorting to post-hoc credibility assessments (i.e. [to mix metaphors] clutching at straws by cherry-picking data); if the effect is very weak, then this kind of test is totally inadequate - your error bars will be the size of your sample; if everyone lies, or you can't be sure you can trust any answer, then you'll never be able to test it - credibility assessments are an unscientific, unreliable waste of time, particularly for someone who appears chronically unable to recognise when someone is joking, sarcastic, or otherwise not serious.

 

[Loss Leader]

During the conversation with the assistant commissioner, he did not "humor me" at all, and at no time, did he say that people were actually not talking in my head, and that this was just some mental disease (but, remember, I was then supported by psychiatrists, until they changed their mind, somewhat like Loss Leader on this forum).

I did not change my mind. I always believed your "tests" were deficient.

Neither the police nor your doctors ever changed their minds, either. What they and I did do was change our tactics in responding to you.

Some have tried to confront you with a frank assessment of your condition. Some have handled you delicately. Some have tried to engage you on your terms. All have had the same goal: to move you to a state of mind wherein you would accept help.

It is a cruel irony that the reasoning skills and and insight you need to get help are exactly the things damaged by your illness. I promise that I will never make fun of you, answer you sarcastically, or confront you with accusations that you are deluded. I will only offer my fondest wish that you ask your family for help.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

My most recent test was actually done with letters: https://fr.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140825120529AAHUZOi (in French). I have also done at least one test with words, but it did not give good results (probably because words have too much meaning, so people have a tendency to favor the meanings they like).

It didn't work because you can't skew letters in the same way you do numbers.

It does not even have to be a real word just a random string of letters [ TPXQTLMRZ ] Like I alluded to earlier, with numbers, You can't claim for example the #4 = #2 because 2+2 =4, With letters you'll either get an exact hit or nothing close.

 

[fromdownunder]

There may be some truth in what you said, fromdownunder, but, at the same time, it seems to me that you are somewhat distorting SezMe's post, in order to make it agree with your skeptical beliefs (or, more exactly stated beliefs).

Hang on for a moment. SezMe has told you that it was not a serious answer in a few hundred well chosen words. You know that because you responded to his post. And my original post explaining that he was just making fun of you was before his response. Read his response again!

But now you think he was lying to you, as you earlier thought that Loss Leader was lying to you when he recanted. I demonstrated earlier in this thread that I was lying to you, and originally you thought my original answer to one of your "guess the number" pieces of crap was the truth.

You are, as I have said so innocent of sarcasm and humour, and utterly incapable of discerning when somebody is lying or telling the truth, that your "tests" are a complete waste of space.

As you have said on this thread, you think everyone on this thread (and on the entire planet) lies to you all the time. Except when they say something that you think supports your position (and often it does not). That is not scepticism, it is wish fulfillment.

Norm

 

[Michel H]

Or, more likely, because telepathy doesn't exist.

I wonder just what it is you're trying to achieve with these tests, and how many negative results it will take for you to realise you're mistaken about telepathy.

If the effect is as strong as you seem to believe it is, then you should be able to demonstrate it without resorting to post-hoc credibility assessments (i.e. [to mix metaphors] clutching at straws by cherry-picking data); if the effect is very weak, then this kind of test is totally inadequate - your error bars will be the size of your sample; if everyone lies, or you can't be sure you can trust any answer, then you'll never be able to test it - credibility assessments are an unscientific, unreliable waste of time, particularly for someone who appears chronically unable to recognise when someone is joking, sarcastic, or otherwise not serious.

My latest telepathy test (in French) on Yahoo Answers was actually successful, like all five tests I have done on this forum, as I have explained in great detail (for evidence very easy to understand, see my post 1726; a ten years old would easily understand the significance of these answers, I am sure you can too).

My impression (although I admit it would be difficult to be completely sure) is that the telepathic effect is strong, but the moral standards in the English and American societies (and, more generally, in the world) are not high enough to get this thing readily admitted. I feel I am the victim of a criminal phenomenon, whose "cornerstone" is the (dishonest) denial of "my telepathy". All of those (and there are many) who, in this thread, have denied (or are denying) that I am "telepathic" are (in my opinion) complicit in this crime (note, however, that the problem is not limited to this forum). It would probably be very easy for most of you to give excellent answers to my question in post 1674 (see also the beginning of post 1755). You know this. But most of you choose to not do it, because you are afraid this could help me proving my case. It's as simple as that, actually. Most of those who post in this thread are not real scientific investigators (or behaving as such here). You are acting, you're actors actually. You're saying things, of which you probably don't really believe yourself the first word.

 

[fromdownunder]

My latest telepathy test (in French) on Yahoo Answers was actually successful, like all five tests I have done on this forum, as I have explained in great detail (for evidence very easy to understand, see my post 1726; a ten years old would easily understand the significance of these answers, I am sure you can too).

My impression (although I admit it would be difficult to be completely sure) is that the telepathic effect is strong, but the moral standards in the English and American societies (and, more generally, in the world) are not high enough to get this thing readily admitted. I feel I am the victim of a criminal phenomenon, whose "cornerstone" is the (dishonest) denial of "my telepathy". All of those (and there are many) who, in this thread, have denied (or are denying) that I am "telepathic" are (in my opinion) complicit in this crime (note, however, that the problem is not limited to this forum). It would probably be very easy for most of you to give excellent answers to my question in post 1674 (see also the beginning of post 1755). You know this. But most of you choose to not do it, because you are afraid this could help me proving my case. It's as simple as that, actually. Most of those who post in this thread are not real scientific investigators (or behaving as such here). You are acting, you're actors actually. You're saying things, of which you probably don't really believe yourself the first word.

Copying this before you edit it out of existence. So everybody on the planet, except you are out of step? Do you know how silly that sounds?

Norm