Michael Brown shooting II

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TheL8Elvis said:
http://fox2now.com/2014/09/24/bob-mc...ge-of-charges/

ST. LOUIS, MO (KTVI) – St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch is presenting the evidence in the Michael Brown case to a grand jury. He went on McGraw Milhaven’s show on 550AM KTRS Wednesday morning to clear up some public perceptions about his involvement in the case. His interview on the AM talk show went on for over 15 minutes. Watch the entire conversation in the YouTube clip in this article.

He says that the prosecutors are not just letting the Grand Jury pick a range of charges. They will present many options to the Grand Jury for officer Darren Wilson ranging from murder to manslaughter.
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Thanks for that link. McCulloch also asserts that he has already asked, and the presiding judge has already agreed to the principle that the grand jury evidence will be released in case of no indictment.

Also, the article discussing the misperceptions carries with it one - McCulloch isn't presenting -- the homicide prosecutor that was on duty that night and the supervising prosecutor in charge of this grand jury when it was selected will.

McCulloch is doing the right thing here - treating this homicide like any other case procedurally while conducting the thing as transparently as the process allows.
 
Apology from Ferguson Police chief Thomas Jackson

http://gawker.com/six-weeks-later-ferguson-police-chief-tells-brown-fami-1639055787

As many of you know, my name is Tom Jackson, and I'm the chief of police of the city of Ferguson. The events of the past few weeks have sent shockwaves, not just around the community here, but around the nation. Overnight I went from being a small-town police chief to being a part of a conversation about racism, equality, and the role of policing in that conversation. As chief of police and as a resident, I want to be part of that conversation. I also want to be part of the solution.

I'm also sorry that it took so long to remove Michael from the street. The time that it took involved very important work on the part of investigators, who were trying to collect evidence and gain a true picture of what happened that day. But it was just too long, and I am truly sorry for that. Please know that the investigators meant no disrespect to the Brown family, to the African-American community, or the people of Canfield. They were simply trying to do their jobs.

Earlier posts, including mine, commented on this and were asked for evidence. Chief Jackson's statement confirms that Michael Brown's body was left uncovered on the street for too long.

I think it's great he made this apology but I can only wonder why it took six week for it to happen.
 
Ferguson Police Chief apologizes to Brown family and community



I guess this and the McCulloch interview signal the start of a public relations campaign.
 
johnny karate said:
Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, there are plenty of other witnesses who saw Officer Wilson shoot Michael Brown to death while Brown had his hands up.

So honestly, I'm not too sure why we need to obsess over the character or behavior of any one particular witness.
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I don't know about "plenty", and I think you internationally mis-characterize discussing witness credibility as 'obsessing'.

I think each witness, and their statements, deserve scrutiny.

Skeptic Ginger said:
And you have proof she changed the FB entry?
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Yes.
 
KatieG said:
Apology from Ferguson Police chief Thomas Jackson

http://gawker.com/six-weeks-later-ferguson-police-chief-tells-brown-fami-1639055787

As many of you know, my name is Tom Jackson, and I'm the chief of police of the city of Ferguson. The events of the past few weeks have sent shockwaves, not just around the community here, but around the nation. Overnight I went from being a small-town police chief to being a part of a conversation about racism, equality, and the role of policing in that conversation. As chief of police and as a resident, I want to be part of that conversation. I also want to be part of the solution.

I'm also sorry that it took so long to remove Michael from the street. The time that it took involved very important work on the part of investigators, who were trying to collect evidence and gain a true picture of what happened that day. But it was just too long, and I am truly sorry for that. Please know that the investigators meant no disrespect to the Brown family, to the African-American community, or the people of Canfield. They were simply trying to do their jobs.

Earlier posts, including mine, commented on this and were asked for evidence. Chief Jackson's statement confirms that Michael Brown's body was left uncovered on the street for too long.

I think it's great he made this apology but I can only wonder why it took six week for it to happen.
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No. The body didn't remain uncovered. His statement says nothing about uncovered.

He is simply apologizing that the "important work" took "too long" (in the eyes of the community)
 
McColloch rationalized that the call for him to recuse himself is only coming from a small group of vocal citizens who think he's "the devil incarnate". He claimed his murdered dad meant he had victim empathy.

The man is completely blind to the reasons he should recuse himself. His interview shows he's very involved in the case, he has not delegated to other staff like one would assign a case and not be involved.

Given the Grand Jury just failed to indict the cop that shot the man in the store with the toy gun the second they saw him as the victim was saying "it's not real", (the video has been released showing that is what happened) I imagine Wilson will not be indicted either.

There's something very wrong with a system that excuses cops who make preventable mistakes that kill people. I can see all these killings are not criminal as in the sense of murder. A physician that makes a mistake and kills someone is sued civilly and not criminally.

But the problem here is these deaths are the result of really bad policing. Regardless if you think Wilson shot in fear legitimately (I don't believe that's what the evidence shows but others do), he made many mistakes that resulted in Brown's death. The police who arrested the man with the choke hold killing him were doing a crappy job. The cop that shot the innocent man in the Walmart did a crappy job.

At what point are these lousy cops who kill accountable? If a physician was really sloppy resulting in someone dying, more than just a lawsuit would happen. He might lose hospital privileges, or be disciplined by the licensing board or even lose his license to practice.

No one is holding these cops accountable for the quality of their work and the consequences are unnecessary deaths of unarmed and innocent people.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Given the Grand Jury just failed to indict the cop that shot the man in the store with the toy gun the second they saw him as the victim was saying "it's not real", (the video has been released showing that is what happened) I imagine Wilson will not be indicted either.
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That's a...novel interpretation of evidence from different a state presented to a different grand jury considering different statues presented by a different set of prosecutors. Other than those facts...
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
McColloch rationalized that the call for him to recuse himself is only coming from a small group of vocal citizens who think he's "the devil incarnate". He claimed his murdered dad meant he had victim empathy.
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And the evidence against both of those statements is ... ?

Skeptic Ginger said:
The man is completely blind to the reasons he should recuse himself. His interview shows he's very involved in the case, he has not delegated to other staff like one would assign a case and not be involved.
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In what way does the interview shows he's very involved ?Because he knows what his subordinates are doing ?

Skeptic Ginger said:
Given the Grand Jury just failed to indict the cop that shot the man in the store with the toy gun the second they saw him as the victim was saying "it's not real", (the video has been released showing that is what happened) I imagine Wilson will not be indicted either.

There's something very wrong with a system that excuses cops who make preventable mistakes that kill people. I can see all these killings are not criminal as in the sense of murder. A physician that makes a mistake and kills someone is sued civilly and not criminally.

But the problem here is these deaths are the result of really bad policing. Regardless if you think Wilson shot in fear legitimately (I don't believe that's what the evidence shows but others do), he made many mistakes that resulted in Brown's death. The police who arrested the man with the choke hold killing him were doing a crappy job. The cop that shot the innocent man in the Walmart did a crappy job.

At what point are these lousy cops who kill accountable? If a physician was really sloppy resulting in someone dying, more than just a lawsuit would happen. He might lose hospital privileges, or be disciplined by the licensing board or even lose his license to practice.

No one is holding these cops accountable for the quality of their work and the consequences are unnecessary deaths of unarmed and innocent people.
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They are accountable when they don't follow procedure.

Your physician is a great example. If he follows the procedures, he' snot going to get in trouble, nor should he.
 
Cylinder said:
The roadside memorial to Michael Brown burned down:
Police speculate candles are the cause of a fire that destroyed a Michael Brown memorial on Canfield Drive Tuesday morning.


The memorial, created in the days after Brown was fatally shot on Aug. 9 by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson, is feet away from where Brown died.

A News 4 photographer on the scene said firefighters used extinguishers, not hoses, to control the flames.
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Brown memorial destroyed by fire
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I find this sad in a lot of ways. One, you had a memorial that people genuinely felt compelled to leave something at. Arson or not, it's still a sad situation.
Two, if candles did indeed cause the fire, the resulting anger is unfairly directed at law enforcement and their lackadaisical firefighting methods.
Three, if some idiots of the Stormfront stripe decided to start problems and light a fire under the community...ugh.
The memorial is burned, and I gather many in the community don't (or won't) believe the official story.
 
plague311 said:
Despite the implication that every witness is saying the same thing, it's not entirely true. Witnesses have changed their stories, some have changed as evidence comes out, and some witnesses say they saw things that fly in the face of the physical evidence. (3 shooters, how many shots, where\when he was hit) All of that varies from statement to statement.

It's blatantly incorrect to say that every witness has the same story line, not to mention that some were seen standing next to each other previous to giving a recollection of the events. Even the articles about the construction worker, and the video, show people screaming that Brown had his hands up. It's something that spread immediately after the incident, whether it was true or not.
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Another important thing that I think people are forgetting is that it's one thing to say something on teevee where there are no real reprecussions but another thing entirely to hold up yer hand and be sworn to tell the truth or else face perjury charges.
 
plague311 said:
Despite the implication that every witness is saying the same thing, it's not entirely true. Witnesses have changed their stories, some have changed as evidence comes out, and some witnesses say they saw things that fly in the face of the physical evidence. (3 shooters, how many shots, where\when he was hit) All of that varies from statement to statement.

It's blatantly incorrect to say that every witness has the same story line, not to mention that some were seen standing next to each other previous to giving a recollection of the events. Even the articles about the construction worker, and the video, show people screaming that Brown had his hands up. It's something that spread immediately after the incident, whether it was true or not.
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The basic narrative that it is my understanding all the witnesses agree upon has it that at the point Brown was shot to death he was some distance away from Wilson with his hands in the air.

Please let me know which witnesses contradict this account.
 
What procedure is it that cops follow when they shoot unarmed suspects trying to surrender?

And, you can follow a procedure but be so bad at your job you shouldn't be doing that job.
 
bynmdsue said:
Another important thing that I think people are forgetting is that it's one thing to say something on teevee where there are no real reprecussions but another thing entirely to hold up yer hand and be sworn to tell the truth or else face perjury charges.
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Yes, but once you've entered the court, raised that hand, and said your piece, another lawyer is going to ask about all the things that were said in front of the camera, and they'd better match what you've just put on record, OR everything you've said up until then is suspect. And that IS important.
 
Skeletor said:
I find this sad in a lot of ways. One, you had a memorial that people genuinely felt compelled to leave something at. Arson or not, it's still a sad situation.
Two, if candles did indeed cause the fire, the resulting anger is unfairly directed at law enforcement and their lackadaisical firefighting methods.
Three, if some idiots of the Stormfront stripe decided to start problems and light a fire under the community...ugh.
The memorial is burned, and I gather many in the community don't (or won't) believe the official story.
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To be fair, they have strong reasons to disbelieve the official story at this point.

However!

Even though there were reports of the smell of gasoline, the fire should have been investigated, seriously. As I understand it (and I could be wrong, I'm not there), it was not.

There was another report of some car (of black people) driving over part of the second memorial, which is located at the exact spot where Brown died, after a memorial service.
 
I just served on a jury last week. A Hispanic man was charged with 2 counts of criminal possession of a weapon and 1 count of menacing 2 (with a weapon). There was no physical evidence connecting the man with the knives. The only evidence was the eyewitness testimony of two people who were not paragons of the community. Where their testimony was consistent, it was a bit too consistent with the same words and phrasing. Where it was inconsistent, it was wildly so. Hell, they couldn't even figure out how they were related. Both had testified to a Grand Jury and that testimony had significant differences.

Their accounts also varied from the Police testimony.

I saw all this as liars who couldn't remember all their lies.

In relation to the witnesses in the MB slaying, we will see how reliable these witnesses are when they actually testify under oath. People of all persuasions are capable of lying or being mistaken. Time will tell.
 
It seems a lot of people are having trouble seeing how a guy with his hands in the air getting shot to death is a justified shooting, or we wouldn't see such a concerted effort to discredit the multiple witness who saw Michael Brown with his hands in the air getting shot to death.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
Here is another knock against crenshaw:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=907799039249878&set=vb.100000593702301&type=3&permPage=1
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/500445422d725c2f48.jpg[/qimg]

Apparently when she first posted it, it said:

Piaget Crenshaw
police burned down mike brown memorial

I don't think she is going to make a very good witness for the prosecution (if it gets that far)
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Ouch.



Mike! said:
Yes, but once you've entered the court, raised that hand, and said your piece, another lawyer is going to ask about all the things that were said in front of the camera, and they'd better match what you've just put on record, OR everything you've said up until then is suspect. And that IS important.
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This.
 
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