Continuation Part 10: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[anglolawyer]

Frank Esposito falsely confessed to starting a fire that burned down a stable. After they got him to confess to starting the fire accidently, the authorities charged him with arson (sound familiar?). "As it turned out, however, investigators advised Esposito to admit that the fire was an accident, and after 18 hours, Esposito succumbed and admitted to something he hadn't done. In fact, Esposito's lawyers discovered phone records that confirmed that Esposito was nowhere near the stable at the time the fire started.

"Though Esposito lacked a taped interrogation, he did have first rate counsel. His parents mortgaged their house for $150,000 to hire Nick Gravante of the famed Boies, Schiller & Flexner. Even when the bill exceeded what Esposito's parents had paid, David Boies urged the firm to continue, reportedly saying I don't care what kind of resources you put into the case. Win that case.'" link

"In reality the defense cost the firm, with the experts and lawyers’ time, about $500,000." link

Last time I looked (about twenty seconds ago) the UK govt. had about £731.4 billion to burn of which £8.2 billion was blown by the Ministry of Justice. Basically, they have a bottomless pocket (except when it comes to City fraud where strangely different rules seem to apply and it's the bad guys who have all the money while the variously impotent and incompetent agencies charged with tackling high end crime bungle from one ********** up case to the next) and they also control the defence budget through the legal aid system.

In this article by a very experienced criminal solicitor, it is explained that:

The current hourly rates in criminal legal aid are almost identical to those in 1992, except then we were also paid for travel and waiting time. We have been reduced to levels that are pre-1970s.

Unfortunately, the overnight, mass exodus from this branch of law never seems to happen (the one thing that would give the politicians pause for thought) so what we have instead are a small number of bastions of excellence, thanks to some incredibly committed people, and a very large amount of dross. There is no way, none at all, that anyone save a small cadre of high end barristers specialising in serious or complicated crime, can make a decent living from criminal work anymore. Yet the government still goes on about 'fat cat' lawyers whenever this topic comes up. It's like calling Amanda Knox a slut. It never fails.

 

[Desert Fox]

Are there any countries where legal defense is not the whipping boy of the judicial system?

 

[JREF2010]

Frank Esposito falsely confessed to starting a fire that burned down a stable. After they got him to confess to starting the fire accidently, the authorities charged him with arson (sound familiar?). "As it turned out, however, investigators advised Esposito to admit that the fire was an accident, and after 18 hours, Esposito succumbed and admitted to something he hadn't done. In fact, Esposito's lawyers discovered phone records that confirmed that Esposito was nowhere near the stable at the time the fire started.

"Though Esposito lacked a taped interrogation, he did have first rate counsel. His parents mortgaged their house for $150,000 to hire Nick Gravante of the famed Boies, Schiller & Flexner. Even when the bill exceeded what Esposito's parents had paid, David Boies urged the firm to continue, reportedly saying I don't care what kind of resources you put into the case. Win that case.'" link

"In reality the defense cost the firm, with the experts and lawyers’ time, about $500,000." link

this seems to be a common combination for witch-hunting

 

[Diocletus]

I am surprised that there isn’t support for travel and hotel expenses for the murder victim’s family as the trial is taking place in another country, assumed there would be some kind of foreign office fund, I guess not.

I have no issue with you or others posting about the hardship on Raffaele and or Amanda’s family, I do not see why it should be a problem to ask about Meredith’s family, thanks for your response.

There's nothing stopping you from sending them a check.

 

[Samson]

I am surprised that there isn’t support for travel and hotel expenses for the murder victim’s family as the trial is taking place in another country, assumed there would be some kind of foreign office fund, I guess not.

I have no issue with you or others posting about the hardship on Raffaele and or Amanda’s family, I do not see why it should be a problem to ask about Meredith’s family, thanks for your response.

Do you remember this passionate message you sent CoulsdonUK?

"Vibio

Brilliant response to Londonjohn's post, excellent!"

You and Vibio discovered a difference between the content of Raffaele's book and his press conference.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

There's nothing stopping you from sending them a check.

You still use cheques!? That was an attempt at humour, right? Bless your heart for trying, well done!

Do you remember this passionate message you sent CoulsdonUK?

"Vibio

Brilliant response to Londonjohn's post, excellent!"

You and Vibio discovered a difference between the content of Raffaele's book and his press conference.

Woolly Mammoth!!

 

[Samson]

You still use cheques!? That was an attempt at humour, right? Bless your heart for trying, well done!



Woolly Mammoth!!

Quite recent, june 30, Vibio from Perugia's gotcha moment. I was drawing attention to the malice she displays by drawing a fine distinction between Raffaele saying she must have been home all night as she had no key, and him now saying he can not be sure.
Presumably he means she logically could leave the door ajar as she came and went.
I was curious why you were so pleased to catch Raffaele out, but I might try punching a stuffed mammoth instead.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Quite recent, june 30, Vibio from Perugia's gotcha moment. I was drawing attention to the malice she displays by drawing a fine distinction between Raffaele saying she must have been home all night as she had no key, and him now saying he can not be sure.
Presumably he means she logically could leave the door ajar as she came and went.
I was curious why you were so pleased to catch Raffaele out, but I might try punching a stuffed mammoth instead.

Samson

Mate! Geeza, erm buddy, don’t know what you are on about, any chance of a post # (number), help me out. I do not have the slightest clue what you are on about, hence woolly Mammoth!

 

[Samson]

Samson

Mate! Geeza, erm buddy, don’t know what you are on about, any chance of a post # (number), help me out. I do not have the slightest clue what you are on about, hence woolly Mammoth!

Your words on Vibio's profile page. The message is public.
Anyone who did not know you better might think you want Raffaele's conviction to be upheld.

 

[acbytesla]

I am surprised that there isn’t support for travel and hotel expenses for the murder victim’s family as the trial is taking place in another country, assumed there would be some kind of foreign office fund, I guess not.

I have no issue with you or others posting about the hardship on Raffaele and or Amanda’s family, I do not see why it should be a problem to ask about Meredith’s family, thanks for your response.

Do you really think there should be money for the victim's family to attend a trial? I feel for Meredith's family losing their lovely daughter, but I'm not sure it is really important for them to be there. Maybe that's just me. I'm curious. Did they attend Rudy's trial?

 

[Desert Fox]

Do you really think there should be money for the victim's family to attend a trial? I feel for Meredith's family losing their lovely daughter, but I'm not sure it is really important for them to be there. Maybe that's just me. I'm curious. Did they attend Rudy's trial?

One question I have is that her father worked for what are effectively tabloids.
He should know how much hype is involved in there. Should that not have made him think about it?

 

[Samson]

Do you really think there should be money for the victim's family to attend a trial? I feel for Meredith's family losing their lovely daughter, but I'm not sure it is really important for them to be there. Maybe that's just me. I'm curious. Did they attend Rudy's trial?

No answer equals no new information.
I expect the fast track trial is closed to the proletariat.
Best question in a while Tesla.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Do you really think there should be money for the victim's family to attend a trial? I feel for Meredith's family losing their lovely daughter, but I'm not sure it is really important for them to be there. Maybe that's just me. I'm curious. Did they attend Rudy's trial?

I do not know whether any of Meredith’s family attended Guede’s trial, given the fast track format there wouldn’t be much point. Think about any trial western trial involving murder that media reported on where the victim’s family didn’t attend trial, this is not unusual.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Your words on Vibio's profile page. The message is public.
Anyone who did not know you better might think you want Raffaele's conviction to be upheld.

Really!? Okay, you are entitled to your opinion. Must admit I am struggling to understand the relevance to this discussion.

Do you have any information regarding Amanda’s ECHR appeal against her slander conviction?

 

[Samson]

Really!? Okay, you are entitled to your opinion. Must admit I am struggling to understand the relevance to this discussion.

Do you have any information regarding Amanda’s ECHR appeal against her slander conviction?

On another tack, do you think anonymous posters on the internet should list and ridicule people with credentials in their field, to further the incarceration of AK and RS?
I understand your position is that the internet is irrelevant to the fact finding and judicial deliberations of the Italians, and therefore can have no bearing whatever on the fate of AK and RS, but still.....

 

[NancyS]

I do not know whether any of Meredith’s family attended Guede’s trial, given the fast track format there wouldn’t be much point. Think about any trial western trial involving murder that media reported on where the victim’s family didn’t attend trial, this is not unusual.

I think there are a number of charities that help the families of victims of crime, why not donate to them?

 

[Desert Fox]

I think there are a number of charities that help the families of victims of crime, why not donate to them?

Doesn't have the satisfaction of punishing innocent victims of the Italian legal system.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

On another tack, do you think anonymous posters on the internet should list and ridicule people with credentials in their field, to further the incarceration of AK and RS?
I understand your position is that the internet is irrelevant to the fact finding and judicial deliberations of the Italians, and therefore can have no bearing whatever on the fate of AK and RS, but still.....

Please provide an example of when an internet discussion site has changed the course of an ongoing judicial process.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Doesn't have the satisfaction of punishing innocent victims of the Italian legal system.

How exactly am I punishing Raffaele or Amanda?

 

[Samson]

Please provide an example of when an internet discussion site has changed the course of an ongoing judicial process.

There is none, but I just posted on IIP. It goes thus

Poster says

My perspective is that it is for us spectators but to watch and experience. Unfortunate that it involves human lives.

I said

While this may commonly be the case, my direct experience is in New Zealand. Arthur Allan Thomas was exonerated by an independent scientist, and a journalist, Sprott and Booth,
David Bain's case was successful at the privy council, ending 17 years' incarceration due solely to Joe Karam, lawyer and ex all black.Teina Pora will be exonerated by the British privy council by dint of efforts of independent journalists in New Zealand, Philip Kitchin being one. These cases I know well.

The last was declared, with stupendous arrogance, to be a case of the system working by the then minister of justice Judith Collins, who has been sacked pending charges of corruption.
David Bain is the most challenging, but he had no motive, and the alternative suspect, father Michael ostensibly did.

Every effort in this case might help. I am not sure who can predict which effort will be the tipping point. Amen.