'What about building 7'?

[NoahFence]

 

[jaydeehess]

Originally Posted by Mike Catalano
"... we’re going to the elevators, the second one hit. We’re 47 floors up and our building is less than 100 yards away. When that second plane hit, we got knocked around and we got scared."

But those sounds and vibrations were nothing compared to what he and others experienced in 7 WTC when 2 WTC collapsed;

Originally Posted by Mike Catalano
"Then everything went pitch black.

The rumbling, the screeching, and the noises — you can’t imagine.

I really can’t describe it.

It was nasty.

I’m telling you the building was shaking."

Why do you keep trying to put Catalano on the 47th floor when WTC 1 collapses?
He was in the third floor lobby when that happened and yes it was awful. Very much like what Jennings and Hess describe occurring when they felt the building go dark, shake violently, and fill with dust at the sixth floor. What a coincidence!

 

[jaydeehess]

Based on Mr. Jenning's testimony of how he was hurrying down the stairway, I believe he could easily have reached the 6th floor landing (ahead of the older Mr. Hess), experienced the explosion which destroyed the landing, and then retreated to the 8th floor in 10 minutes or less.

what,, what,, whaaaa?

from what orifice do you draw this new interpretation? Did Jennings or Hess say that Jennings got to the sixth floor ahead of Hess??

 

[jaydeehess]

Thought I'd look for a comparison. The CN Tower climb competition record is bit over 10 minutes. The CN tower is 1465 feet climb, 144 flights of 12 stairs each. (numerologists must have a field day) Of course that's going up.

Let's round that to about 8 times that of the traverse that Jennings and Hess went down. Its a bit more difficult for us old guys to run down than it was when we were younger. I recall skipping steps and using the handrail to swing around at the landings back when I lived in a 20th floor apartment. It was also dizzying. So perhaps, maybe a young person might travel that distance in 2 minutes at breakneck speed.
MM's estimate of ten minutes might not be too far off. Jennings apparently had health issues so perhaps allow for 50% more at 15 minutes.

Now , when did the lights flicker on the 23rd floor and who said that?

Does anyone know of a building stair climb competition that is round trip?

 

[DGM]

At this point maybe it would be best to make a list of how many people have to be wrong to make Mr Jennings single account correct.

His account is vague, this we know is the fault of the interviewers who should have asked him better questions. He obviously confuses and mixes some events. He is absolutely correct though when it comes to when he saw the towers standing, this could not possible be wrong.

So, let's make a list of how everyone else is wrong.

I'll start with Mr Hess mentioning how it was dark and dusty and got darker and dustier at the time of the explosion. Must be wrong.

 

[Norseman]

In the Vesey Street lobby and then the third floor lobby but did not notice an explosion at the sixth floor. Billy was still on the 47th floor, or just starting down the stairs when WTC1 collapsed. Had radio contact with Mike throughout, but he did not notice this explosion either.

I assume you meant when WTC 2 collapsed. But in addition to Billy, Mike also had Viennie and Galeato with the generators on the fifth floor, also with radios. According to Mike Catalano Vinnie came down the stairs with Billy when WTC 2 collapsed. No one heard anything.

I note that MM does not consider Mike's story as reliable.

 

[jaydeehess]

I assume you meant when WTC 2 collapsed. But in addition to Billy, Mike also had Viennie and Galeato with the generators on the fifth floor, also with radios. According to Mike Catalano Vinnie came down the stairs with Billy when WTC 2 collapsed. No one heard anything.

I note that MM does not consider Mike's story as reliable.

I'll read again but Catalano said the call to the phone saved his life by getting him off Vesey Street.

However yeah Billy had started down earlier . Bill had called him via radio and told him to find a phone.

 

[jaydeehess]

I note that MM does not consider Mike's story as reliable.

Gee , you mean despite the fact that Mike is much more consistent with his timeline and much more consise?

 

[jaydeehess]

OT
So odd now to have a boss like Catalano having to be told to go find a phone. It was only 13 years ago.

 

[GlennB]

At this point maybe it would be best to make a list of how many people have to be wrong to make Mr Jennings single account correct.

The joke is that Jennings also has to be wrong. He didn't break that window just after he got back to the 8th floor, he waited a solid half hour. MM has said so.

 

[Dog Town]

Why are you calling me out with incendiarylogical...posts like this?

I wonder?

 

[carlitos]

"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution"

 

[Miragememories]

Where did anyone say they only flicked on that floor alone?

"Only flickered", as in, that is all that happened at that time. There is no reason to believe this only occurred on the 23rd floor and it was not my intention to suggest that it was.

Why do you keep trying to put Catalano on the 47th floor when WTC 1 collapses?

Show me where I do that?

Did Jennings or Hess say that Jennings got to the sixth floor ahead of Hess??

Based on Mr. Jenning's testimony that seemed to be a reasonable conclusion.

"At that time I received a phone call from one of my higher ups.

And ah..he said "where are you?"

And I said uhm..you know, the Emergency Command Center.

A long pause.

And then he came back and he said; "Get out of there. Get out of there now.

I wanted to get out of that building in a hurry.

So I started. Instead of taking one step at a time, I'm jumping landings."

I could be wrong but presumably Mr. Hess was not "jumping landings" ahead of Mr. Jennings.

MM's estimate of ten minutes might not be too far off.

Jennings *apparently had health issues so perhaps allow for 50% more at 15 minutes.

Mr. Jennings was 46 at the time and did not mention any health issues.

*What from orifice did you extract that bit of untruth?

Now, when did the lights flicker on the 23rd floor and who said that?

The NIST did.

I thought you read before you posted?

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs, the lights inside WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed."

And more misrepresentation.

I note that MM does not consider Mike's story as reliable.

Where did I say that I thought Mike Catalano's story was unreliable?

After the plane hit 2 WTC at 9:02 am, Mike Catalano said he went down the staircase to the lobby "in minutes."

When he got there they he told the head of security to call a full evacuation.

His request was refused, but fortunately, the 7 WTC property manager was there, who he agreed with Mike, and got on the building PA system calling for a full evacuation.

The joke is that Jennings also has to be wrong. He didn't break that window just after he got back to the 8th floor, he waited a solid half hour. MM has said so.

Still not interested in the truth I see Glenn.

No response from you re: posts 2430 and 2448 Glenn.

"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution"

Not at all.

That is the role of the rabble that wish to bury inconvenient truths under a pile of garbage posts.

 

[DGM]

That is the role of the rabble that wish to bury inconvenient truths under a pile of garbage posts.

Like ignoring all the inconsistencies in Mr Jennings account? The most glaring being the time he broke the window and assumed it was before either building had collapsed. We know this is not the case, and you have acknowledged this. This is a known point in time. To justify his account, you need to work back from there. Another troubling part is there were others in the building at the time you suggest the explosion happened but, none reported it.

Why handwave these "inconvenient truths"?

 

[GlennB]

The joke is that Jennings also has to be wrong. He didn't break that window just after he got back to the 8th floor, he waited a solid half hour. MM has said so.

Still not interested in the truth I see Glenn.

Point out the mistake or untruth and I'll retract immediately. You conceded the window was broken after the collapses, yet accept that Jennings saw both buildings standing while on that floor. This puts J+H on the 8th for a solid 30 minutes and you have accepted this fact, no?

 

[Norseman]

Gee , you mean despite the fact that Mike is much more consistent with his timeline and much more consise?

Exactly, or how the behavior of the former head of security for Solomon Smith Barney in WTC 7 was stamped as suspicious by MM, just because he risked his own life going back up into to the building after the collapse of WTC 2, to look for people he was concerned could still be left in the building. That could of course not be considered as a plausible explanation at all, could it? Of course not, the man has security in his job title, he must certainely be in on the wast, grand and complicated conspiracy to blow up his own place of work, and that for reasons no CT-er have come even remotely close to being able to explain on a rational level.

On a more serious note, when I saw the complete interview with Jennings the first time, what struck me was how uninformed Jennings actually was about the events he had been a part of that day. He is bewildered about everything. The interview was done in 2007, by then the FEMA report on WTC 7 from 2002 had been out for 5 years; and the first part of the NIST report that included NIST NCSTAR 1-8: The Emergency Response Operations, had been out for 2 years. I am a bit surprised that a man in his position as emergency coordinator responsible disaster planning for NYCHA obviously not has seen any of these reports. Especially the last report should have been of interest for a man in his position as an emergency coordinator, responsible for planning how NYCHA should handle disasters and emergencies affecting NYCHA's housing projects, with hundreds of thousands of residents. He's account is included in the last report.

Those reports would have helped him make more sense of his experience, than watching confused news reports on television later in the evening that day.

 

[TJM]

I could be wrong but presumably Mr. Hess was not "jumping landings" ahead of Mr. Jennings.

Well since Mr. Hess seems to think he was with Mr. Jennings at the moment they ran into the wall at the 6th floor, maybe Mr. Jennings carried him down. I'm thinking he tucked Mr. Hess under one arm, football style. That would've left Mr. Jennings a free arm when he dangled from the pole later on, so no piggyback or bride-over-the-threshold type carry.

 

[Norseman]

Where did I say that I thought Mike Catalano's story was unreliable?

I looked back at your exchange with Glenn B, and I now see that when you responded to GleenBs complaint about you torturing well-established and reliable accounts, it was the NIST report you did not consider to be reliable. Since Mike Catalano's story was quoted in the post I jumped to the conclusion that you were talking about his story, after reading the post a bit to quickly. So I am going to retract that statement by me, my mistake.

But I still wonder why Mike Catalano and his coworkers did not notice the 6th floor explosion that you believe occurred before the collapse of WTC 2. That still leaves me with the impression that you on some level considers his story to be unreliable. Is your line of reasoning here that something has been deliberately left out of his story for nefarious reasons.Or do you think that they did not notice it, something I would find very hard to believe if the event was caused by something else than the collapse of a tower, as you want to believe in the face of considerable amount of evidence to the contrary.

 

[Norseman]

Exactly, or how the behavior of the former head of security for Solomon Smith Barney in WTC 7 was stamped as suspicious by MM, just because he risked his own life going back up into to the building after the collapse of WTC 2, to look for people he was concerned could still be left in the building. That could of course not be considered as a plausible explanation at all, could it? Of course not, the man has security in his job title, he must certainely be in on the wast, grand and complicated conspiracy to blow up his own place of work, and that for reasons no CT-er have come even remotely close to being able to explain on a rational level.

I am going to preempt you here to some degree MM, I wrote that part in response to your comment on the security managers going back up in WTC 7 after collapse of WTC 2:

At the time he was looking into the OEM on the 23rd floor, according to Mr. Jennings, he and Mr. Hess were in the 8th floor NE corner office.

Of additional interest here is that this private security officer for a business on the 44th floor decided to return to that floor after the collapse of 2 WTC in order to check that his personnel had all safely evacuated.

After pausing at the 10th floor, because his police officer escort could not go on, he continued on and managed to climb as high as the 30th floor.

At that point in time he experienced the building shake as 1 WTC collapsed.

This is quite a stairwell climb to make between the two collapses.

Why I make note of this, is Mr. Jennings claimed he was jumping stairwell landings in his hurried descent from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor. I've descended a similar stairwell distance at a normal pace in several minutes.

At the first reading of that passage, I got a strong impression that you found it suspicious that he went back up. Rereading it, I see that it is written more in the context of if he could have managed get as high as the 30th floor before WTC 1 collapsed, in your view Jennings should have no problem descending to the 6th floor in a short time to. So I retract my statement in relation to your post MM.

But I will still stand by it as a general comment on CT-ers approach to WTC 7. One of the reasons they find the collapse of WTC 7 so suspicious, is just because it housed several federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies, in addition to OEM itself. So by default it must be suspicious, but why they think that these agencies would find it a splendid idea to blow up their own local field offices, is beyond me. Maybe they wanted a new shiny office tower to locate their offices in? To what extent this is a part of your thinking in relation to WTC 7 I do not know MM.

 

[GlennB]

No Truther has ever managed to give a good reason for the supposed CD of WTC7.

Insurance? They made a slight loss.

Destroy incriminating evidence of some malfeasance? There are much more reliable ways that don't require demolition of a vast building with the attendant risks.

"Extra shock and awe"? As if there wasn't enough already.

Discussing this with Truthers is no more than a game to pass the time between watching shots in a golf tournament or reading your favourite online comics.

It bears repeating - MM's most recent theory is that WTC7 was "supposed" to fall in the immediate aftermath of WTC1's collapse, without his ever explaining why it might be supposed to do that.