Continuation Part 10: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[lonepinealex]

My question if your opinion if they thought they were framing guilty or innocent suspects?

At that time, guilty (most of them at least, including Mignini. I'm sure there were a handful that had doubts). It's classic confirmation bias and circular reasoning. I have no idea what any of those involved at the time think about it all now, and I'm not going to speculate cos it's pointless.

 

[lonepinealex]

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I agree. Naturally the police will be suspicious of everybody in the beginning, but when they kept interviewing them night after night, I'd say after the second interview, you could argue that she was a suspect by then,

d

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yes you could, and I probably would. I would not however, claim that they were framing her, because I think they genuinely and in their ignorance and poor investigative skills thought they had their murderer.

The argument being made above was a conspiracy to protect Guede by framing an innocent. I cannot believe that, because the evidence of what happened doesn't point to any such scenario.

 

[Desert Fox]

At that time, guilty (most of them at least, including Mignini. I'm sure there were a handful that had doubts). It's classic confirmation bias and circular reasoning. I have no idea what any of those involved at the time think about it all now, and I'm not going to speculate cos it's pointless.

There are good reasons actually why one might want to know if those involved in the Italian prosecution still believe they are guilty. It may effect the kind of phrasing of any response.

 

[Samson]

We do not absolutely know that Amanda and Raff are innocent. We can argue it is incredibly unlikely but we will never know for sure.

DF we do know absolutely they are innocent. The proof is multilayered, and the best reason to post here is to sow doubt in the minds of people who operate mendacious and ill educated websites of which there are at least three. Some read here.
In case someone reads this before tweeting and retweeting,
Raffaele has a cast iron alibi at 9 13 and 9 26. By the latter time Meredith was dead with stone cold scientific certainty, notwithstanding discussions that fudge this issue. Raffaele had no chance of killing Meredith between these times. Until there are proper attempts to make this clear his life is at risk.

 

[Grinder]

I think that there is just one puzzling physical aspect to the case, the bra clasp.
1. Raffaele's dna is on it without doubt.
2. It is near impossible that he touched it.

Yet the police both needed and expected to find his dna on it on a particular date. They knew the bra clasp was there, and had sexual implications to support the provisional charges.

Sherlock Holmes would declare it tampered with because no other explanation works. For example accidental contamination could not possibly be expected, yet Mignini's whole career was in jeopardy.

I am personally close to being satisfied he either ordered the contamination to one trusted person, or one person performed it as a personal favour.

The fact that it remains the vital piece of evidence for conviction supports the idea it was used to frame.

Well it sure would be nice if it could be determined to whom the other profiles belong. It could be Meredith got Raf's DNA from a common towel in the shared bathroom but not if the other profiles don't fit that, if they are cops then well...

 

[Samson]

Well it sure would be nice if it could be determined to whom the other profiles belong. It could be Meredith got Raf's DNA from a common towel in the shared bathroom but not if the other profiles don't fit that, if they are cops then well...

Historic election result world famous in NZ,
back to normal programming.

Dan O correctly suggests that anyone can privately investigate. Over to those with skin in the game. Seattle residents that hate the continual kidnapping of their kid sister maybe?

 

[Grinder]

The police officer from Milan that got the call is quoted on having received it saying something like, "these things happen from time to time". Don't have the cite off hand, someone else may. But its likely from a journalist/(or whatever you call them), and therefore not within your ken.

But it is the actual words of an actual person, not unnamed sources, so I would think that's worth something, even for you.

Your suggestion that Moore's experience is not sufficient to qualify as a subject matter expert in crime scene analysis, well, it only needs to be said out loud, to be refuted.

I don't have the energy to address the other issues, nor would you accept the sources, so why bother.

Moore's own pages bio doesn't indicate he has any experience with murder crime scene work other than terrorists. He spent much of his time as a pilot and sniper. He indicates no connections in Italy.

There is nothing he provides to substantiate the informer allegation and if it were true the case would be over.

Provide credible sources and they will be believed. A one off out of a book that has no sourcing isn't a credible source.

A vague memory about a cop in Milan isn't anything. I ask again how could the Perugians even know to call Milan? The crimes Rudi committed in Milan were of a low level and would be charged here as misdemeanors and he would be released most likely without a court hearing (in custody hearing).

 

[Samson]

Moore's own pages bio doesn't indicate he has any experience with murder crime scene work other than terrorists. He spent much of his time as a pilot and sniper. He indicates no connections in Italy.

There is nothing he provides to substantiate the informer allegation and if it were true the case would be over.

Provide credible sources and they will be believed. A one off out of a book that has no sourcing isn't a credible source.

A vague memory about a cop in Milan isn't anything. I ask again how could the Perugians even know to call Milan? The crimes Rudi committed in Milan were of a low level and would be charged here as misdemeanors and he would be released most likely without a court hearing (in custody hearing).

Being discovered illicitly in a child friendly location with an appropriated knife and stolen goods would terminate his career here, I am amazed that Europeans are so lazy about this. I also would need citations to believe he would not be detained indefinitely in USa for this.

 

[AmyStrange]

So much of what happened is so suspicious...

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yes you could, and I probably would. I would not however, claim that they were framing her, because I think they genuinely and in their ignorance and poor investigative skills thought they had their murderer.

The argument being made above was a conspiracy to protect Guede by framing an innocent. I cannot believe that, because the evidence of what happened doesn't point to any such scenario.

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Makes sense, except that I believe the knife was a possible frame and the damaging of the bra-clasp is also highly suspicious as well as the computer hard drives, There's just too much destruction of evidence to not be at least suspicious. If you could prove any of this was deliberate, I would then personally believe they were framed by the cops.

But, I do believe that Rudy framed Raffaele and Amanda in his eyewitness (letter) testimony, and if you could prove that legal proceedings were deliberately manipulated so the defense couldn't question Rudy about his accusation, then I would say that evidence was a frame up by the prosecution,

d

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[Samson]

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Makes sense, except that I believe the knife was a possible frame and the damaging of the bra-clasp is also highly suspicious as well as the computer hard drives, There's just too much destruction of evidence to not be at least suspicious. If you could prove any of this was deliberate, I would then personally believe they were framed by the cops.

But, I do believe that Rudy framed Raffaele and Amanda in his eyewitness (letter) testimony, and if you could prove that legal proceedings were deliberately manipulated so the defense couldn't question Rudy about his accusation, then I would say that evidence was a frame up by the prosecution,

d

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Insightful, and true. It is certain the prosecution capitalised on the inability of the defence to enact the confrontation clause by the outlier process of fast track trial.

 

[Grinder]

While looking for any credible proof the Perugians called Milan I found this below.

Guede was later booked at a Milan police station and accused of theft, receiving stolen goods, and in possession of a weapon. He was also fingerprinted and then released.

It was those fingerprint records that eventually nailed Guede to the scene of Meredith Kercher's murder. His bloody palm print was found on a pillow under Kercher's dead body.

From ABC's Ann Wise

 

[Samson]

While looking for any credible proof the Perugians called Milan I found this below.

Guede was later booked at a Milan police station and accused of theft, receiving stolen goods, and in possession of a weapon. He was also fingerprinted and then released.

It was those fingerprint records that eventually nailed Guede to the scene of Meredith Kercher's murder. His bloody palm print was found on a pillow under Kercher's dead body.

From ABC's Ann Wise

Great citation Grinder! It seems important till someone gainsays it is new information.

 

[Grinder]

Great citation Grinder! It seems important till someone gainsays it is new information.

An otiose comment as it can't be new information. I didn't remember the fingerprint aspect. I had remembered it said that his alien permit was the source of the identifying prints.

If the Perugians called Milan and had Guede released and this is unusual in Italy one would think it a very big story. As I've stated I don't recall the alleged call being reported anywhere and certainly not credible and sourced.

 

[Bill Williams]

While looking for any credible proof the Perugians called Milan I found this below.

Guede was later booked at a Milan police station and accused of theft, receiving stolen goods, and in possession of a weapon. He was also fingerprinted and then released.

It was those fingerprint records that eventually nailed Guede to the scene of Meredith Kercher's murder. His bloody palm print was found on a pillow under Kercher's dead body.

From ABC's Ann Wise

Great citation Grinder! It seems important till someone gainsays it is new information.

Great find. What year was Wise's report and is there a link?

 

[Dan O.]

An otiose comment as it can't be new information. I didn't remember the fingerprint aspect. I had remembered it said that his alien permit was the source of the identifying prints.

It was reported immediately after his capture that it was from a previous knife fight over drugs that Rudy was involved in where the police got his fingerprints to make the identification. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-fourth-suspect-in-kercher-murder-758731.html

The same report then shows several lies from the police trying to tie Amanda to Rudy. I think this definitively demonstrates when the coverup for their raw incompetence began.

 

[Anode]

It was reported immediately after his capture that it was from a previous knife fight over drugs that Rudy was involved in where the police got his fingerprints to make the identification. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-fourth-suspect-in-kercher-murder-758731.html

The same report then shows several lies from the police trying to tie Amanda to Rudy. I think this definitively demonstrates when the coverup for their raw incompetence began.

From that article:

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"Amanda Knox made at least two calls to his number, one of them at 11am on 2 November, around the time police discovered Kercher's body."
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That never happened right? Or was the article referring to one of the phones that Rudy stole from MK?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

helping the process along

Police certainly can produce false evidence or break laws in getting evidence but it is only a frame up if the people are not guilty. That doesn't make the act correct.

The PLE didn't frame them from day one but may well have falsified evidence later and may have become framers when it became clear they might well be innocent.

Grinder,

If the police believe that someone is guilty and tamper with or falsify the evidence in some way to increase the odds of a conviction, are you saying that you would not use the word "frame" to describe it. If so, what term do you suggest?

 

[Grinder]

It was reported immediately after his capture that it was from a previous knife fight over drugs that Rudy was involved in where the police got his fingerprints to make the identification. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-fourth-suspect-in-kercher-murder-758731.html

The same report then shows several lies from the police trying to tie Amanda to Rudy. I think this definitively demonstrates when the coverup for their raw incompetence began.

Popham was one of the least anti-kids reporter some on the PGP side would say pro Knox.

Dan are there other reports about this knife fight or drug activity? Certainly would think these items would have been featured by the defense. It was my impression that his prints came from his alien registration.

 

[Desert Fox]

DF we do know absolutely they are innocent. The proof is multilayered, and the best reason to post here is to sow doubt in the minds of people who operate mendacious and ill educated websites of which there are at least three. Some read here.
In case someone reads this before tweeting and retweeting,
Raffaele has a cast iron alibi at 9 13 and 9 26. By the latter time Meredith was dead with stone cold scientific certainty, notwithstanding discussions that fudge this issue. Raffaele had no chance of killing Meredith between these times. Until there are proper attempts to make this clear his life is at risk.

We never know anything absolutely except maybe in some areas of math.
That Amanda and Raff are guilty is incredibly remote there is always a tiny probably. There is however no credible evidence supporting it.

 

[Dan O.]

From that article:

**********************
"Amanda Knox made at least two calls to his number, one of them at 11am on 2 November, around the time police discovered Kercher's body."
**********************

That never happened right? Or was the article referring to one of the phones that Rudy stole from MK?

Rudy doesn't aparently even have a phone. There was a claim that the sim in the lawyer's stolen phone was Rudy's but this isn't verified.

Amanda's first call on November 2 (verified in multiple records) was at 12:07 to Meredith's UK phone.