Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend

[SezMe]

She has decided.
I say that with certainty, because otherwise she is still reading tea leaves.
Hellmann had decided.
Nencini had decided.
This is how things are.
Decisions are made, yet a measure of apparent neutrality is demanded by the protocols, yet the signals precede the decision (not always)

Ya know, there's a mil for someone who can read minds with such certainty.

 

[Samson]

Ya know, there's a mil for someone who can read minds with such certainty.

Zuka burg

 

[Azrael 5]

Verdict begins tomorrow and continues Friday.
Why it takes 2 days to say guilty send him down I have no idea

 

[ddt]

Tell that to my south african friend who was shot (and almost killed) by home intruders through a door.

That doesn't mean I don't think Oscar's actions (if you believe his story) were at best stupid and irresponsible, but knowing people who have been shot without warning by intruders, I have some sympathy for the possibility.

If that's the sort of thing you are worried about, then you don't stand in front of the door the intruder, who is possibly going to shoot you, is hiding behind.

If I remember correctly, Oscar claimed he was in the bedroom when he heard sounds from the bathroom; then he went through a relatively narrow corridor, lined with closets, to the bathroom, where he fired on the door of the bathroom stall. All the while thinking Reeva was still in bed.

Even if his story were true, he deliberately sought out the confrontation. Was he afraid that the intruder would steal a few bathroom soaps?

No sympathy from me.

 

[lionking]

If I remember correctly, Oscar claimed he was in the bedroom when he heard sounds from the bathroom; then he went through a relatively narrow corridor, lined with closets, to the bathroom, where he fired on the door of the bathroom stall. All the while thinking Reeva was still in bed.

Even if his story were true, he deliberately sought out the confrontation. Was he afraid that the intruder would steal a few bathroom soaps?

No sympathy from me.

Nor from me. His version of events is nonsense, and he's going down.

 

[The Don]

Verdict begins tomorrow and continues Friday.
Why it takes 2 days to say guilty send him down I have no idea

I'll be interested to hear the process of delivering the verdict. If it was just a case of guilty/not guilty then that would take a few seconds so I presume that the judge summarises the evidence and/or her reasoning behind whatever verdict she delivers.

 

[GlennB]

Any more specific predictions? I'm guessing at guilty of culpable homicide, with 10 years or so. Presumably there's an appeal procedure for any custodial sentence so I'll also guess this thing will drag on much longer.

 

[GlennB]

dup.

 

[The Don]

Any more specific predictions? I'm guessing at guilty of culpable homicide, with 10 years or so. Presumably there's an appeal procedure for any custodial sentence so I'll also guess this thing will drag on much longer.

Personally I would convict him of common-law-murder Unlawfully intended to kill in the heat of the moment but without "malice aforethought".

I fear that he will be acquitted on all major charges and will be fined a nominal sum for possession of the .38 ammunition without a licence.

 

[DarthFishy]

Personally I would convict him of common-law-murder Unlawfully intended to kill in the heat of the moment but without "malice aforethought".

I fear that he will be acquitted on all major charges and will be fined a nominal sum for possession of the .38 ammunition without a licence.

Most of the legal experts I've been reading about see what you want to convict him of as one of the more likely possibilities. Or a "negligent homicide" kinda equivalent.

I'm predicting a 15 year prison sentence (even though my bias says it should be 25 years for pre-meditated murder but there's not enough evidence to convict for that).

All IMHO.

On a related note, some of the people in my social circle here in SA are getting to the point where we just want the whole thing to be done. Getting sick of OP and the trial.

 

[MontagK505]

Most of the legal experts I've been reading about see what you want to convict him of as one of the more likely possibilities. Or a "negligent homicide" kinda equivalent.

I'm predicting a 15 year prison sentence (even though my bias says it should be 25 years for pre-meditated murder but there's not enough evidence to convict for that).

All IMHO.

On a related note, some of the people in my social circle here in SA are getting to the point where we just want the whole thing to be done. Getting sick of OP and the trial.

I suspect the courtroom custodians are getting tired of cleaning vomit off the floor. (sarcasm)

 

[DarthFishy]

I suspect the courtroom custodians are getting tired of cleaning vomit off the floor. (sarcasm)

From the live coverage of the trial it seems that Judge Masipa has a huge stack of papers on the desk in front of her. Might be while before we get to the verdict.

And as far as I understand the actual sentencing will only be carried out in a week or so.

 

[DarthFishy]

I suspect the courtroom custodians are getting tired of cleaning vomit off the floor. (sarcasm)

Just read that the bucket is back in the courtroom. One of the custodians is obviously expecting more fireworks (waterworks?) (bileworks?)

 

[Filippo Lippi]

Bbc report said that the verdict might not be given until tomorrow as the judge has to go through and comment upon all of the witnesses' statements

 

[Octavo]

I'll be interested to hear the process of delivering the verdict. If it was just a case of guilty/not guilty then that would take a few seconds so I presume that the judge summarises the evidence and/or her reasoning behind whatever verdict she delivers.

The Judgement usually covers witness testimony and evidence and provides the judges reasoning for discounting or accepting various pieces of evidence (Witness X was not credible because of Y, Exhibit A lends credence to the testimony of Witness B, etc.) Her actual verdict is only announced right at the end of the judgement.

 

[The Don]

The Judgement usually covers witness testimony and evidence and provides the judges reasoning for discounting or accepting various pieces of evidence (Witness X was not credible because of Y, Exhibit A lends credence to the testimony of Witness B, etc.) Her actual verdict is only announced right at the end of the judgement.

That's excellent.

 

[Puppycow]

The Judgement usually covers witness testimony and evidence and provides the judges reasoning for discounting or accepting various pieces of evidence (Witness X was not credible because of Y, Exhibit A lends credence to the testimony of Witness B, etc.) Her actual verdict is only announced right at the end of the judgement.

Well that certainly is a way to keep everyone in suspense.

Anyway, here's what she has said so far:

Judge questions witness testimony in Oscar Pistorius murder trial

The state's case of premeditated murder relied heavily on the evidence of one witness who said she heard the couple quarrel on the night of the shooting and others who said they heard a woman's screams.

In a blow to the prosecution’s attempt to prove premeditation, Judge Masipa said the court could not rely on neighbors' testimony on what they heard that night, since many were mistaken.

Some were confused, some were far from the Pistorius house and others failed to distinguish what they heard from what they later picked up from the media, the judge noted.

She also found the only person who could have screamed on the night of the shooting was Pistorius.

"Human beings are fallible," Masipa said in reference to witnesses, adding that the court would instead rely on technology, including phone records, to establish what happened.

I can't disagree with her finding that "Human beings are fallible." Not sure how she concluded that the only person who could have screamed on the night of the shooting was Pistorius.

 

[Octavo]

I predict a culpable homicide verdict. OP will then "study the judgement" and then apply for leave to appeal. Cue another 5 years of legal wrangling.

 

[anglolawyer]

I guess I have to stick with the prediction I made right at the start - that he would get off altogether, except for the minor firearms stuff. My thinking was police incompetence + celebrity and money = acquittal, but now I would add my own view that his account is not more far-fetched than the idea that he deliberately shot his girlfriend through the bathroom door. Accidents with guns happen and he had already gone up against the washing machine. The state needed to find one piece of evidence that refuted his story and has failed to do so. Therefore, there is reasonable doubt on murder and, if I were on the jury, had what he says he believed actually been true, I would say he used reasonable force to protect himself and Reeva. Therefore, he walks. Oh, sorry.

 

[lionking]

I guess I have to stick with the prediction I made right at the start - that he would get off altogether, except for the minor firearms stuff. My thinking was police incompetence + celebrity and money = acquittal, but now I would add my own view that his account is not more far-fetched than the idea that he deliberately shot his girlfriend through the bathroom door. Accidents with guns happen and he had already gone up against the washing machine. The state needed to find one piece of evidence that refuted his story and has failed to do so. Therefore, there is reasonable doubt on murder and, if I were on the jury, had what he says he believed actually been true, I would say he used reasonable force to protect himself and Reeva. Therefore, he walks. Oh, sorry.

Your prediction will be wrong.