The Metaphysical Consciousness

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I have not ignored you up till now, Doron. You have let yourself down. I am sorry that you can't engage in conversation, but what can I do?
 
doronshadmi said:
Belief is always about something that you are not directly aware of it. The calm state of consciousness is directly known only at actual calmness. This is very simple.
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It is also apparently very simple to misunderstand, as usual, what was said, and give an utterly unrelated response.
Words or thoughts are naturally not the calm states of consciousness. This is also very simple.
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Which is another way, apparently, of acknowledging what I said. You can't put it into words, but by golly, you'll try anyway.
Have you noticed that your relative-only variant-only aspect of consciousness naturally avoids any direct knowledge of the calm state of consciousness?

This is also very simple.
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Actually only the presumption is simple. The presumption here is that you alone have found the path to wisdom and tried it, and that nobody could possibly disagree with you from any point of view but ignorance. Its simple but overweaning, and it does not, of course, address the issue, which is that you have not succeeded in convincing anyone of your ideas, and that such a resounding lack of success might, to some who are not blinded by self-righteous arrogance, suggest that either the ideas or the expression of them are in need of reevaluation.
 
bruto said:
... to some who are not blinded by self-righteous arrogance ...
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The calm state of consciousness is naturally free of self-righteous arrogance.

bruto said:
The presumption here is that you alone have found the path ...
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I am definitely not alone by being aware of the calm state of consciousness (for example http://scholar.google.co.il/scholar?start=0&q="least+excited+state+of+mind"&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5 and http://scholar.google.co.il/scholar?start=0&q="Transcendental+consciousness"&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5), so "The presumption here" is simply false.

Your relative-only variant-only aspect of consciousness naturally avoids any direct knowledge of the calm state of consciousness, and this is indeed the fact for you that does not need any reevaluation.
 
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Meditation can help with some phobias and unnecessary stress. Deeper levels of meditation get into self-hypnotic states. I don't know of any specific benefit of these. There is a long practice in India of using stage magic to enhance one's claim of being more spiritual than the average person. There are some claimed Buddhist monks outside of India who also use stage magic although this is not as common as it is in India. The TM practices of meditation are obviously Buddhist in origin. Their claim of levitation also follows the common deceptive practices of Indian holy men. I still have no idea why people follow a practice based on fraud but of course people follow Pat Robertson as well. And, he is no less a fraud.

Some of these meditative practices can do unusual things such as raising body temperature. I've done this myself so I know that it has nothing to do with enlightenment or any particular religious or spiritual belief.
 
barehl said:
The TM practices of meditation are obviously Buddhist in origin.
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No, its origin is in the Veda.



barehl said:
Their claim of levitation also follows the common deceptive practices of Indian holy men. I still have no idea why people follow a practice based on fraud but of course people follow Pat Robertson as well. And, he is no less a fraud.
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The TM-Sidhi program is not about levitation, but about the increased correlation of brain's function (for example http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00207458808990703).
 
The problem with consciousness is that it is wordsalad. You cannot talk about it without using wordsalad. Wich means: non-detectable phenomena. A dream for example. Try to discover a dream while you are investigating a brain. That's impossible. You will not be able to distract a dream logically by measuring a chemical process in the brain. You need to be that chemical process (we, human beings) to know that dreaming is an invisible part of a chemical reality. Images in our head are part of a electrochemical reality too. We know this wordsalad (images in the head or 'dreams') exists because we are that electrochemistry wich experience the existence of it. So, to be is to know. Not: to investigate is to know. What does 'to experience' mean? It's wordsalad. It isn't just the electrochemical process of the nervous system. It's something undetectable. Only to know when you are this system.
 
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Maartenn100 said:
We know this wordsalad (images in the head) exists because we are that electrochemistry wich experience the existence of it. So, to be is to know. Not: to investigate is to know.
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But to investigate is to map the limits of the experience, the where and when it crosses into delusion.
 
Yes, I will start a new topic about it later: consciousness is a part of reality, we can only use wordsalad for.
 
bruto said:
Then perhaps you should seek it out and cultivate it, and refrain from posting until the effect is felt.

Until then, claiming that disagreement is misunderstanding will be taken for what it is.
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You are the one that unconditionally reject the usefulness of the calm state of consciousness as the natural correlation among the non-calm states of consciousness, so maybe some discussion between you and yourself has some small chance of improvement, in this case.

Until then, claiming that misunderstanding is disagreement will be taken for what it is, misunderstanding.
 
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Maartenn100 said:
The problem with consciousness is that it is wordsalad.
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The problem is solved when you know yourself without thoughts, be simply silently be.

On the basis of this objective direct knowledge, subjective expressions are manifested in many complex and creative ways that do not contradict each other.

B.T.W the terms objective\subjective are done by the subjective non-calm aspect of consciousness, where at the calm aspect of consciousness there is no multiplicity of any kind, just unity.

So, reality is at lest the invariant (the calm) AND the variant (the non-calm).
 
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doronshadmi said:
The problem is solved when you know yourself without thoughts, be simply silently be.

On the basis of this objective direct knowledge, subjective expressions are manifested in many complex and creative ways that do not contradict each other.

B.T.W the terms objective\subjective are done by the subjective non-calm aspect of consciousness, where at the calm aspect of consciousness there is no multiplicity of any kind, just unity.

So, reality is at lest the invariant (the calm) AND the variant (the non-calm).
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I hate to break it to you, sir, but grabbing a cleaver and flailing does not "solve" the problem of word salad.

The command to "be simply silently be," aside from its unfortunate grammar, is hard to reconcile with the verbosity that seems to accompany it.
 
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