'What about building 7'?

[DGM]

Then Barry Jennings was blown up by the explosion....................

He was on the 6th floor and claims the "explosion" came from below. MM ignores this and dismisses the impact damage because it couldn't have penetrated the building as deep as the core (it could but doesn't really mater in this case). The stairway that was below him was at the exterior.

Poor reasoning skills keeps MM hanging on to Jennings (accurate but time flawed) testimony.

 

[LSSBB]

ex·plo·sion
Pronunciation: \ik-ˈsplō-zhən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin explosion-, explosio act of driving off by clapping, from explodere
Date: 1667
1 : the act or an instance of exploding <injured in a laboratory explosion> 2 : a large-scale, rapid, or spectacular expansion or bursting out or forth <the explosion of suburbia> <an explosion of red hair> 3 : the release of occluded breath that occurs in one kind of articulation of stop consonants

Compare to :

explosive
Function: noun
Date: 1849
1 : an explosive substance 2 : a consonant characterized by explosion in its articulation when it occurs in certain environments : stop

Not identical.
Do explosives cause noises of explosion? Sure. Does lots of material falling on a building cause explosive noises (especially to a layman's ear)? Sure. Anecdotal evidence subject to indefinite source - dismissed.

 

[DGM]

Does lots of material falling on a building cause explosive noises (especially to a layman's ear)? Sure. Anecdotal evidence subject to indefinite source - dismissed.

Surly, MM know how to distinguish what a simile is................ He would never quote mine something in hopes no one would catch on.


His jig is so up it passed in to comedy years ago. Will he ever catch on, who knows.

 

[NoahFence]

To suggest, still to this day, that Jennings was witness to the explosives going off in 7, and he survived, and the building didn't collapse for several more hours is the very definition of insane.

 

[JayUtah]

Well, it's at least grasping at straws. That's why this sort of thing never flies for long in the real world. Sooner or later your desperation shows and your conspiratorial rants lose their persuasive effect. These claims sound good at first, but then after a while people say, "Hey, wait a minute..." and thereafter bringing them up again is just desperate.

 

[000063]

Why?

Because he was fortunate enough that his arrival time was such that he was sufficiently shielded from the explosion to survive?...

So you're saying he was shielded from building-destroying explosives - you know, the ones which usually have safety ranges of several hundred feet or so - by being in the building that was being destroyed.

 

[Redwood]

The conspiracy has powers beyond belief.

So?
For that matter, how did the bad guys know for a fact that the debris impact and fires wouldn't disrupt the explosives? There are literally millions of ways for it to go wrong, especially since the damage would be impossible to predict because it would depend on shedloads of random factors.

Furthermore, how did "they" know that fires would even start in WTC 7? No fires, AFAIK, started in the neighboring Verizon, Post Office, or Fiterman Hall buildings; but vehicles past WTC 7 on Barclay and West Broadway were set ablaze. Did the Vast Conspiracy have such technological mastery as to be able to predict or direct the distribution of flaming debris in a seemingly chaotic event, or was a team of Ninja arsonists employed to set autos and WTC 7 ablaze without being detected, so as to justify the fires in WTC 7?

 

[TJM]

Why?

Because he was fortunate enough that his arrival time was such that he was sufficiently shielded from the explosion to survive?

No. I think you know my stance on Mr. Jennings exaggerated account. But if you need me to sum it up; OK. Weapons grade BS.

​

There is no denying the fact that the stairway access was sufficiently destroyed to prevent his exit.

Um, yes there is. You've already posted it for me:

From NISTNCSTAR1-8, "Firefighters on the ground saw them and went up the stairs. In addition, a security officer for one of the businesses in the building was also was trapped on the 7th floor by the smoke in the stairway. As the firefighters went up, they vented the stairway and cleared some of the smoke. They first met the security officer on the 7th floor and firefighters escorted him down the stairs. Other firefighters from the group continued up the stairs, shined their flashlight through the staircase smoke and called out. The two trapped men on the 8th floor saw the flashlight beam and heard the firefighters calling and went down the stairway. The firefighters took the men outside and directed them away from the building."

​

I never said that Barry Jennings reached the 6th floor using both stairwells.

Neither did I.

In the original on the street News interview, one of Barry's rescuers said that the backside of BOTH WTC7 stairwells had been blown out making them impassable.

The man did not identify where each stairwell became impassable but was clear that at that time they could not reach the 8th floor.

What that means to me? They evidently had trouble finding the stairs to begin with then when they found them, they had to plan a rescue. You just don't charge up the stairs in that situation. You'd want to know why they're trapped so you don't wind up in the same mess.

Oh, and what, exactly, is the "backside of a stairwell"?

Well, the 5th floor schematic you provided does not provide the details of 6th floor where they encountered the destroyed stairwell..

I don't believe they were on 6 - they were in the transfer corridor which is where they ran into the wall in the dark as per Mr. Hess.

Secondly, could you please source the document from which you obtained the Figure 3-1 floor 5 schematic.

http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=861611 Page 50.

The NIST story above makes it appear that at one stairwell, there was no blockage other than smoke.

Obviously.

This is in direct conflict with the live interview with one of Mr. Jenning's rescuers;

Addressed above.

​

I have not found any details regarding the actual means by which Mr. Jennings and Mr. Hess were rescued...

...that can be twisted into something that fits your theories.

There is absolutely no credible reason to doubt both Mr. Jenning's and Mr. Hess's accounts about the stairwell being inaccessible.

Addressed above.

Their personal stories make it obvious that they had no wish to remain in WTC7 if they could escape.

Irrelevant.

Since it seems hardly likely that any elevators were made operational, the most likely process involved the rescuers clearing the obstruction from the other stairwell or using a ladder.

That was a long way to go just to answer the simple question "How did they get down to the lobby".

Unfortunately you've debunked yourself yet again. We know they weren't brought down on elevators. We also know why at least one of your two impassable, destroyed stairwells all of sudden became passable and not so destroyed after all.

The elevators can't be operational in your fantasy. If Jennings and Hess came down on elevators, that pretty much debunks any explosion strong enough to take out both stairwells as that would've destroyed the elevator hoistways as well.

Really MM, Time for a new hobby.

 

[pgimeno]

"When we reached the 8th..uh, the 6th floor, the landing that we were standing on gave way.

There was an explosion. And the landing 'gave way'."

And that explosion broke no windows! Imagine that.

 

[GlennB]

Furthermore, how did "they" know that fires would even start in WTC 7? No fires, AFAIK, started in the neighboring Verizon, Post Office, or Fiterman Hall buildings; but vehicles past WTC 7 on Barclay and West Broadway were set ablaze. Did the Vast Conspiracy have such technological mastery as to be able to predict or direct the distribution of flaming debris in a seemingly chaotic event, or was a team of Ninja arsonists employed to set autos and WTC 7 ablaze without being detected, so as to justify the fires in WTC 7?

It was this argument - that the fires couldn't be guaranteed to provide the 'excuse' for the collapse - that eventually led MM to abandon the idea that fires were part of the plan. He switched to believing that WTC7 was 'supposed' to collapse in the wake of the WTC1 collapse - a plan that went wrong but was corrected later - but never did explain what the perps' cover story would be for such a massive building spontaneously collapsing. Nor why it might be targeted, naturally.

Anyway, I suppose the Jennings 'explosion' being part of a failed greater attempt fits his early collapse theory. The cognitive dissonance must be physically painful at that intensity though.

 

[Miragememories]

There is no denying the fact that the stairway access was sufficiently destroyed to prevent his exit.

Um, yes there is. You've already posted it for me:

I agree that the extract I posted from NISTNCSTAR1-8 is in contradiction with rescuer interview testimony.

Like the Barry Jennings timeline, the NIST made the story conform to the one they wished to tell.

The NIST had a big problem if they did not discredit Barry Jenning's account of what happened.

Explosions in WTC7 conflicted with the NIST hypothesis for the events of the day.

Blown out stairwells supported Barry Jenning's testimony but crippled the NIST hypothesis.

The NIST 'massaged' the story, reporting what they liked and ignoring that which posed an inconvenient truth. Such anecdotal editing would have been left to administrators and not written by non-political engineers who would only have a say in the science and engineering contents of the NIST reports.

The fact remains that in the initial rescue attempt;

"Both staircases. The backside was completely blown away.

There was no way to access.

We couldn't get to 'em."

Whether it be their contradictory steel expansion hypothesis with column 79, or their belated acknowledgement of WTC7's free fall, the NIST has shown a proclivity for not revealing anything that undermines what they want the public to believe.

In the original on the street News interview, one of Barry's rescuers said that the backside of BOTH WTC7 stairwells had been blown out making them impassable.

The man did not identify where each stairwell became impassable but was clear that at that time they could not reach the 8th floor.

What that means to me?

They evidently had trouble finding the stairs to begin with then when they found them, they had to plan a rescue.

You just don't charge up the stairs in that situation.

You'd want to know why they're trapped so you don't wind up in the same mess.

Oh, and what, exactly, is the "backside of a stairwell"?

They [Jennings and Hess], were trapped, as we know, by the blown out stairwells.

They were also able to directly communicate with their rescuers on the street below.

We know the interior was without power at that time and was very dark and smoky.

One has to reasonably assume that rescue teams, already alerted by Jennings and Hess (calling down from the broken 8th floor at WTC7's NE corner), intended to do more than just locate the stairwells leading to the 8th floor.

So what is the "that situation" that you feel would stop them dead in their tracks and cause them to temporarily abort their rescue attempt?

Smoke and darkness?

"I took a fire extinguisher and I bust a window out. That's when this gentleman here heard my cries for help. This *gentleman right here and he kept saying "stand by, somebody's coming to get you.."

"We went through the building. We were lost. Both staircases. The backside was completely blown away. There was no way to access. We couldn't get to 'em. And finally uh. One of the fire department teams found 'em."

It was 'that situation' which slowed down the rescue effort. The rescuers must have been quite aware of the darkness and smoke.

Of course the NIST conveniently made no mention of those mysteriously blown out stairwells.

If the "backside" of a stairwell is such a concern to you, it can be Googled.

Well, the 5th floor schematic you provided does not provide the details of 6th floor where they encountered the destroyed stairwell.

I don't believe they were on 6 - they were in the transfer corridor which is where they ran into the wall in the dark as per Mr. Hess.

So in spite of Barry Jenning's testimony, you choose to believe he went even lower..to the 5th floor landing?

Why?

Because Mr. Jennings presents another inconvenient truth?

Whenever you encounter some information that violates your chosen belief you make stuff up in order to discount it.

I agree there was some confusion on this point, as both Mr. Jennings and Mr. Hess originally stated the 8th floor was their lowest descent point, when interviewed shortly after their rescue.

In later interviews Mr. Jennings was certain it was the 6th floor landing.

Additionally, Mr. Hess, who later altered his testimony to conform with the official narrative, originally was in agreement with Mr. Jennings regarding the explosion that resulted in the stairwell blockage at the 6th floor.

From Interview with Frank Ucciardo, Channel 9 News:

and I walked down to the 8th floor where there was an explosion..and we'd been trapped on the 8th floor with smoke, thick smoke all around us for about an hour and a half. But the New York Fire Dept., as terrific as they are just came and got us out."

The NIST story makes it appear that at one stairwell, there was no blockage other than smoke.

"As the firefighters went up, they vented the stairway and cleared some of the smoke...Other firefighters from the group continued up the stairs, shined their flashlight through the staircase smoke and called out. The two trapped men on the 8th floor saw the flashlight beam and heard the firefighters calling and went down the stairway."

This is in direct conflict with the live interview with one of Mr. Jenning's rescuers

Obviously.

Addressed above.

So you must believe the would be rescuer who said "Both staircases. The backside was completely blown away.", was lying.

What possible motivation could he have for lying so emphatically?

The stairs transition out to the perimeter at the fifth floor, where their exits likely became impassable from the street level due to heavy debris from the towers.

Remember, according to Mr. Jennings, he and Mr. Hess were evacuated from 8 and taken out the building from the lobby. WTC 7's lobby was above street level.

So the question that needs to be answered here is: How did Jennings and Hess get down to the lobby?

If the FDNY brought them down via the stairs to the lobby, then the stairs were neither destroyed nor impassible to the 8th floor, thus discrediting Jennings. And you.

If the building did have emergency power and elevators were in fireman's service, then FDNY would've rescued Jennings & Hess and brought them to the lobby in that manner, though that debunks Jennings (and you) too.

Which is it?

Since it seems hardly likely that any elevators were made operational, the most likely process involved the rescuers clearing the obstruction from the other stairwell or using a ladder.

That was a long way to go just to answer the simple question "How did they get down to the lobby".

Unfortunately you've debunked yourself yet again. We know they weren't brought down on elevators.

We also know why at least one of your two impassable, destroyed stairwells all of sudden became passable and not so destroyed after all.

The elevators can't be operational in your fantasy.

If Jennings and Hess came down on elevators, that pretty much debunks any explosion strong enough to take out both stairwells as that would've destroyed the elevator hoistways as well.

Really MM, Time for a new hobby.

??

That elevator fantasy was ALL yours AJM.

 

[DGM]

So you must believe the would be rescuer who said"Both staircases. The backside was completely blown away.", was lying.

What possible motivation could he have for lying so emphatically?

So, how did they get out?

 

[JSanderO]

So, how did they get out?

hook and ladders can go pretty high... maybe?

 

[DGM]

hook and ladders can go pretty high... maybe?

Or the stairs with FF guidance like it was reported.

You would think the "truthers" would be all over finding the WTC 7 interviews #2041604 and 1041704.
Better to be left a mystery when they know it won't support the fantasy.

 

[pgimeno]

The NIST had a big problem if they did not discredit Barry Jenning's account of what happened.

Explosions in WTC7 conflicted with the NIST hypothesis for the events of the day.

No, they didn't. Explosions don't mean explosives. So many people heard explosions and there's no report of barotrauma^WP injuries typical of shock waves. Existence of explosions doesn't conflict with anything NIST said.

I don't see anything in Jennings' or Hess' testimony that conflicts with a transformer blowing up. That'd explain why Hess said the lights went off.

The stairs are not structural elements. They don't have an influence on the resistance of the building. NIST had no reason to take them into account.

 

[DGM]

The NIST had a big problem if they did not discredit Barry Jenning's account of what happened.

I noticed you never quote what the man with Jennings has to say.




Why is that?

 

[GlennB]

"There were no explosions"

 

[LSSBB]

Explosions aren't explosives.
Free fall isn't freely falling.

MM, it looks to me like you are trying to use misinterpretation as the way to success. It seems you are more inspired by Inspector Clouseau than Woodward and Bernstein.

 

[beachnut]

... Because he was fortunate enough that his arrival time was such that he was sufficiently shielded from the explosion to survive?...

What a joke - now we have no blast effect explosives that destroy structure but leave people undamaged, no hearing loss, no effects - silent no hurt humans high explosives, SNHHHE...

Next failed fantasy in , five, ...

13 years and the 911 truth followers will be re-posting lies

 

[NoahFence]