The Metaphysical Consciousness

doronshadmi said:
Unless both have a common source.

In this case no efforts are needed in order to them together.

Moreover, the common source enables the development of natural harmony among them.
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How true, my mind and body now sing in a barbershop quartette.
 
doronshadmi said:
It is true about relative common source.

I am talking about an absolute common source for all relative phenomena, that can't be known as long as we are only talking (or thinking) about it.

Moreover a real absolute common source is not influenced by space\time changes, and your example uses a (relative) common source that is influenced by space\time changes.

Once again the relative-only variant-only view is used as the only game in the neighborhood.

Please also reply to http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10195772&postcount=783.

Thank you.
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Just plugging in the words variant and invariant, or absolute and relative, does not explain anything, because you have been utterly unable to explain what you mean. The phrase "a common source" has a meaning that is understood in the English language. If what you mean is something else, say something else.
 
Tinyal said:
This is meaningless, new-age word salad - regardless of the poster's native language. How people keep this mumbo-jumbo in their heads and actually interact- productively, and honestly - with the world around them is beyond me.
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Agreed.

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Tinyal said:
This is meaningless, new-age word salad
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meaningless, new-age word salad is exactly the mambo-jambo of Postmodernism, which according to it everything is relative-only (no invariant absolute truth exists), so if you reject the invariant absolute aspect of reality, you actually supporting this meaningless, new-age word salad.
 
bruto said:
Just plugging in the words variant and invariant, or absolute and relative, does not explain anything, because you have been utterly unable to explain what you mean. The phrase "a common source" has a meaning that is understood in the English language. If what you mean is something else, say something else.
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Since you are using words in order to comprehend the usefulness of reality only in terms of the relative and the variant, no explanation that uses also the invariant and the absolute, will be accepted by you.

Moreover, the absolute can't be known directly unless consciousness directly knows its calm aspect, which is naturally free of thoughts and worlds, in the first place.
 
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doronshadmi said:
Moreover, the absolute can't be known directly unless consciousness directly knows its calm aspect, which is naturally free of thoughts and worlds, in the first place.
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Doron, this unknowable, indescribable absolute that you are so ardent about has only your word for it.

What are you trying to do here?

Let's see:
1. Command us to use the variant AND invariant, whatever that means.
2. Tell us that we cannot know anything about it unless we meditate, or something vague.

Thanks. We've got it. You can move along.

You don't seem to get that we disagree with your conclusions. You don't seem to care for the many reasons we've given.

If we cannot possibly understand unless we join TM then you will continue to be of no effect here, no use, no purpose.

So, now what?
 
abaddon said:
Your attemt to describe whatever it is you are describing has already failed.
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As long as it is at the level of description, it fails to directly know the calm aspect of consciousness.

Unfortunately you and other posters here, try to get satisfactory answers only at the subjective level of words and thoughts, instead of actually using a mental practice that enables to directly know the calm aspect of consciousness, that naturally does not need any word or thought in order to be.
 
Donn said:
You don't seem to get that we disagree with your conclusions.
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Directly know the calm aspect of consciousness, is a fundamental term that can be used in order to conclude things.

So you can't disagree with my conclusions simply because your premise is based only on the non-calm aspect of consciousness and so are your conclusions.
 
Donn said:
If we cannot possibly understand unless we join TM
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No one must to be a member of TM organization in order to practice TM, exactly as no one must be a member of Apple company in order to use iPhone.

Furthermore, TM teachers are no more than travel agents of TM, which means that they can organize for you a successful journey to some place (the calm state of consciousness, in this case) even if they have never been there by themselves.
 
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doronshadmi said:
Since you are using words in order to comprehend the usefulness of reality only in terms of the relative and the variant, no explanation that uses also the invariant and the absolute, will be accepted by you.

Moreover, the absolute can't be known directly unless consciousness directly knows its calm aspect, which is naturally free of thoughts and worlds, in the first place.
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Consciousness free of thought is unconscious.
 
doronshadmi said:
Directly know the calm aspect of consciousness, is a fundamental term that can be used in order to conclude things.

So you can't disagree with my conclusions simply because your premise is based only on the non-calm aspect of consciousness and so are your conclusions.
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But do you understand the calm beyond calm where the universe whispers silently in you ear and you see the beings of light with your spiritual eyes?

Your consciousness fades away like a bad memory and you are suffused with the all encompassing calm.
 
doronshadmi said:
meaningless, new-age word salad is exactly the mambo-jambo of Postmodernism, which according to it everything is relative-only (no invariant absolute truth exists), so if you reject the invariant absolute aspect of reality, you actually supporting this meaningless, new-age word salad.
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Identifying the source of "mambo jambo" (mumbo jumbo perhaps) does not make it false if it is true.

doronshadmi said:
Since you are using words in order to comprehend the usefulness of reality only in terms of the relative and the variant, no explanation that uses also the invariant and the absolute, will be accepted by you.

Moreover, the absolute can't be known directly unless consciousness directly knows its calm aspect, which is naturally free of thoughts and worlds, in the first place.
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Ah, I see we're in two sweet spots of woo here at once. You can't know the stuff you believe unless you believe it first, and because no words can describe it sloppy and inadequate explanation is required.

Now I don't want to sound too too critical here, but have you noticed that your explanations have not been successful? At all? For anyone? Now I know alternative ideas are planted in rocky ground, but you might benefit from some reflection here.
 
I am on vacation at the moment. My wife has brought some magazines for entertainment.
She asked me what I read for fun.
I just showed her the post where Doron says we are not allowed to disagree with his conclusions.
She asked me why we weren't allowed to.
I told her 'because we don't get it.'
Her reply was that this never stopped anyone from being deluded anyway...
 
She's right. He's creating a perfect invariable conversation with himself that no one else is invited to.

Enjoy your holiday!
 
bruto said:
You can't know the stuff you believe unless you believe it first
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Belief is always about something that you are not directly aware of it. The calm state of consciousness is directly known only at actual calmness. This is very simple.

bruto said:
and because no words can describe it sloppy and inadequate explanation is required.
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Words or thoughts are naturally not the calm states of consciousness. This is also very simple.

bruto said:
Now I don't want to sound too too critical here, but have you noticed that your explanations have not been successful? At all? For anyone? Now I know alternative ideas are planted in rocky ground, but you might benefit from some reflection here.
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Have you noticed that your relative-only variant-only aspect of consciousness naturally avoids any direct knowledge of the calm state of consciousness?

This is also very simple.
 
tsig said:
But do you understand the calm beyond calm where the universe whispers silently in you ear and you see the beings of light with your spiritual eyes?

Your consciousness fades away like a bad memory and you are suffused with the all encompassing calm.
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A poetic expression that is done from the non-calm aspect of consciousness.
 
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