Michael Brown Shooting

[Skeptic Ginger]

Screens?
You think it would be possible to put screens between some of the observers and the body "without raising suspicions."

I am not saying the FPD did everything they could. I am just saying that in this instance it would be impossible to put up screens anywhere without raising suspicions.

They do it around here.

http://lubbockonline.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/11186212.jpg

http://images.onset.freedom.com/ocr...-b78902319z.120120111155607000g2h14n6t7.1.jpg

http://blog.nola.com/times-picayune/2007/12/large_body2.JPG


As for raising suspicions, that's why I suggested someone from the community be allowed to observe.

Re priorities, (another post mentioned), you are looking at a tense situation developing. I think police could have figured out sooner rather than later that they needed to pay attention to the optics in this case.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...Characterizing recusal as appeasement is deeply dishonest....

Well said.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

According to the WAPost article, That doesn't sound like corruption was the main problem.

Is it possible the washington post has an agenda ?

Is it possible that corruption really was the main problem ? That there were incidents, but the real issue behind disbanding the force was actually corruption, though ?

Both things seem quite possible. The first one also seems quite likely to me.

It's also worth noting that was Wilson's first police job. So his introduction to police standards was in a department with an excessive use of force and disrespect for black citizens. Even if Wilson had a clean record, he might have seen abnormal police work as normal.

Yes, it's worth noting even though the article had nothing specific to say about Wilson, zero evidence he did anything wrong ... .yet you paint him with the broad brush of racist excessive force police.

It seems maybe the article did exactly as intended.

The article also notes something you were saying about the small communities:That can't make for good public relations, when the community views the police as writing tickets to generate income rather than policing crime.

That's what you think people are saying here?

I think many posters have a pretty evident bias against the police, and am surprised they haven't used this against wilson more than they have, yes.

It's clear a lot of police in the county have little respect for a lot of the citizens in the county. It's clear a lot of citizens in the county view the police as enemies, not friends.

Wilson stopped to order two young men out of the street. That's crazy right there. What an absolutely unnecessary 'crime' to bother with. What was the point?

It's crazy to enforce the laws ? I disagree.

It's not about getting even by shooting Brown. It's about losing one's temper when a couple of young men ignored your authority. Or, about being so certain young black men are thugs you don't stop to notice one is surrendering, you shoot before you notice because you are acting on stereotypical biases.

Assuming either of those scenarios is accurate. Which remains to be seen.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Is it possible the washington post has an agenda ?

So nothing in that fairly balanced article to suggest this, you're just going to throw it out there to impeach a relevant point that Wilson came from a department with a racism problem that resulted in the whole department being fired?

Is it possible that corruption really was the main problem ? That there were incidents, but the real issue behind disbanding the force was actually corruption, though ?

I dunno, do you have a single shred of evidence?

Yes, it's worth noting even though the article had nothing specific to say about Wilson, zero evidence he did anything wrong ... .yet you paint him with the broad brush of racist excessive force police.

You need to re-read my post, you missed the key thing I said which is not what you seem to think it was.

It's crazy to enforce the laws ? I disagree.

People walk in the middle of narrow two-lane residential streets. If you think that is a crime a police officer needs to address, I think most people in the country would disagree with you.

Should cops go around and order all the people out who play basketball in the street too?

 

[Mike!]

So nothing in that fairly balanced article to suggest this, you're just going to throw it out there to impeach a relevant point that Wilson came from a department with a racism problem that resulted in the whole department being fired?

I dunno, do you have a single shred of evidence?


You need to re-read my post, you missed the key thing I said which is not what you seem to think it was.

People walk in the middle of narrow two-lane residential streets. If you think that is a crime a police officer needs to address, I think most people in the country would disagree with you.Should cops go around and order all the people out who play basketball in the street too?

I would hope it might depend on how busy a street it is. I've seen it referred to as a 'cul-de-sac' here, but I don't know that is true or not.

 

[Skeletor]

People walk in the middle of narrow two-lane residential streets. If you think that is a crime a police officer needs to address, I think most people in the country would disagree with you.

Should cops go around and order all the people out who play basketball in the street too?

I would hope it might depend on how busy a street it is. I've seen it referred to as a 'cul-de-sac' here, but I don't know that is true or not.

I looked up "2900 Canfield Dr, Ferguson MO" on Google Maps, and I see a wide street, one with double yellow lines down the middle (that indicate a no-passing zone) and with sidewalks on both sides. With the curves in the road, it looks like a terrible place to have a pickup basketball game, especially if you're driving a car through it.

ETA: The shooting happened at about noon, there are large, shady trees on both sides of the street, why would anyone deliberately want to induce heatstroke by walking in the middle of the road instead of using the sidewalk?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

..................
People walk in the middle of narrow two-lane residential streets. If you think that is a crime a police officer needs to address, I think most people in the country would disagree with you.

...........

Look what ignoring the request to get out of the street got Brown... I guess he showed them...

 

[Lerxst]

If you think some laws are unnecessary, and certainly many would argue that some are, you should work to get them changed. Refusing to comply is not going to get you anywhere except often landing you in jail.

 

[Distracted1]

Whether or not Brown made a legitimate attempt to get Wilson's weapon is a huge issue in this case.

Can you imagine attacking someone who is armed and not making an effort to disarm them. That seems like the most obvious thing to do, lest one wrestle around with ones armed victim until that victim is able to use their weapon.

 

[Mike!]

I looked up "2900 Canfield Dr, Ferguson MO" on Google Maps, and I see a wide street, one with double yellow lines down the middle (that indicate a no-passing zone) and with sidewalks on both sides. With the curves in the road, it looks like a terrible place to have a pickup basketball game, especially if you're driving a car through it.

ETA: The shooting happened at about noon, there are large, shady trees on both sides of the street, why would anyone deliberately want to induce heatstroke by walking in the middle of the road instead of using the sidewalk?

The middle of a street with curves, busy enough to require double yellow no passing lines, doesn't seem like the healthiest place to take a leisurely stroll home on a Sunday afternoon.
Seems like one could come to a bad end there with almost no warning at all.
But what do I know?
I'm just nutty enough to use a perfectly good sidewalk, if one is available.
Call me a rebel.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

It's crazy to enforce the laws ? I disagree.

Does no one here remember playing, for example, hockey with your friends in a residential street as a kid? And without fear of running afoul of law enforcement?

 

[tyr_13]

Does no one here remember playing, for example, hockey with your friends in a residential street as a kid? And without fear of running afoul of law enforcement?

No.

 

[LTC8K6]

Does no one here remember playing, for example, hockey with your friends in a residential street as a kid? And without fear of running afoul of law enforcement?

Yes, but it was 1977 and it was not a street with a line down the middle.

 

[LTC8K6]

I just looked at Google's street view, and the street looks the same.

 

[rwguinn]

Does no one here remember playing, for example, hockey with your friends in a residential street as a kid? And without fear of running afoul of law enforcement?

Yes, but it was 1977 and it was not a street with a line down the middle.

Actualky, it was 1967--And a small town AND an unlined, straight, and fully residential street-which we also walked down to the maize field carrying shotguns during quail season

 

[LTC8K6]

If a car came, we had to move the hockey net. Or stop playing stickball. The area is much more populated now, but the street I grew up on looks pretty much the same.

https://goo.gl/maps/zajI3

 

[Skeletor]

I just looked at Google's street view, and the street looks the same.

If a car came, we had to move the hockey net. Or stop playing stickball. The area is much more populated now, but the street I grew up on looks pretty much the same.

https://goo.gl/maps/zajI3

In the initial reports of the shooting, the street I had pictured was just like the link you provided! Yes, you can play basketball, stickball and hockey here...maybe even walk down the middle of the street. Not on Canfield Drive.

 

[Cain]

I am open to changing my opinion should more evidence surface.

I would like to say the same thing, but why risk going from the right position to the wrong one?

 

[GWCarver]

Is it possible the washington post has an agenda ?

Is it possible that corruption really was the main problem ? That there were incidents, but the real issue behind disbanding the force was actually corruption, though ?

Both things seem quite possible. The first one also seems quite likely to me.

The article wasn't actually what it appears to be, IMO. Notice that all of the inflammatory information is anecdotal. There are no references to police reports, newspaper accounts, or anything else that supports the police department being shutdown due to racism. No minutes of the city council meeting where the decision was made. Most importantly, no discussion of the city finances and how they were affected by the change. Since when have reporters not followed the money? Did they raise taxes to do this or did it save them money? City budgets are public records, although it does take time to figure them out.

The entire account of what happened to Sandra Fuller comes from Sandra Fuller. The other example of racism came in the form of an anecdote from a member of the city council. The proof of a corruption problem was limited to an anecdote about one lieutenant who was accepting federal funds for drunk driving checks that never happened.

There were several things mentioned about their inability to find Wilson, but somehow they forgot to mention he has been hiding because he is afraid for his life.

Lousy journalism by a lousy newspaper.

 

[Lerxst]

Does no one here remember playing, for example, hockey with your friends in a residential street as a kid? And without fear of running afoul of law enforcement?

Yes but that's not at all what happened here and completely irrelevant. As minor as it may seem to some, Brown and Johnson were breaking the law and Wilson had every right to at least say something to them, which was the first thing he did do. By all accounts, and this is not even disputed by Johnson, it was after they refused to get out of the road because they were "almost to where they were going" that Wilson decides to block their path with his SUV and actually stop them.