'What about building 7'?

[JayUtah]

Could you back that up please?

I refer you first to the thread in this forum in which the published membership of AE911T is compared numerically against the population of suitably qualified practitioners.

I refer you further to the thread in which individual members were spot-checked and none of them could explain the nanothermite hypothesis.

 

[Redwood]

However, under no conceivable circumstances would there be a supersonic shock wave occurring from the simple collapse of a structure. Not so with explosives. High-brisance explosives like the RDX shaped charges used to cut structural steel for demolition must create a supersonic shock wave, and that can be both heard and felt from a great distance and over most other continuous sounds. Because it originates from a necessarily supersonic event, it is a different character of sound.

A good illustration of the difference is the sound of a black powder cannon as used in Civil War or Revolutionary War re-enactments (subsonic) vs the sound of a modern cannon (supersonic). Completely different even if they're the same caliber.

 

[JayUtah]

A good illustration of the difference is the sound of a black powder cannon as used in Civil War or Revolutionary War re-enactments (subsonic) vs the sound of a modern cannon (supersonic). Completely different even if they're the same caliber.

Indeed, I once had a black powder Navy revolver, a replica of the same model Custer used at Little Bighorn. Black powder is an explosive only by the most lenient definition, and it has approximately the same order of brisance as the nanothermite in the paper MM ignorantly invokes every time. Believing that such a material would sever structural steel is equivalent to believing you can cut girders by sprinkling a little black powder on it and igniting it.

But yes, to confirm your observation, black powder and modern firearm propellant produce markedly different sounds. RDX demolition charges, much more percussive. And yes, I know what they sound like. We use them as range safety charges in rocket motors. Almost exactly the same way they are used in demolition.

 

[BasqueArch]

It may seem implausible that conventional paint could appear superficially similar to an incendiary or explosive material, but it is nevertheless a fact.

A common paint formulation is essentially a carbon-based resin with embedded particles giving it the desired color and characteristics.

A commonly used red pigment is made of iron-oxide particles while kaolin platelets (an aluminum-silicon compound), are commonly used as a filler and pigment.

Traditionally, thermite is a blend of iron-oxide and elemental aluminum, but in the 1990's, US National Laboratories started developing an advanced form, nano-thermite composite materials, using sol-gel technology.
Sol-gel can be engineered into a hybrid carbon-silica matrix material that is itself energetic, resulting in a composite material that can be turned into a powerful explosive.

This "super-thermite" essentially appears as a resin with nano-thermite embedded within.

Dr. Harrit et al note that this sort of a material "can be sprayed or even “painted” onto surfaces, effectively forming an energetic or even explosive paint."

Thus, this high-tech energetic material can appear like red paint.
As explained in the 2009 Bentham paper, Dr. Harrit et al were able to establish that the nano-scale platelets found in the red chip material were composed of elemental aluminum and not an aluminum-silicon compound (kaolin).

Except the BSE pictures of that sol-gel and Harrit's fake thermite primer paint look nothing alike. Also the sol-gel has no homogenous layer of steel in it.

"In addition, the gray-layer material demands further study. What is its purpose?" -Harrit.

Harrit could not identify, unlike Millette, that the gray homogenous layer of iron and carbon was steel.

 

[DGM]

Harrit could not identify, unlike Millette, that the gray homogenous layer of iron and carbon was steel.

I'm sure they could but it would spoil the whole point of their paper. This works also with their comment about the fact their thermite was more energetic then thermite could be perhaps because of some "organic contamination".

 

[GlennB]

Except the BSE pictures of that sol-gel and Harrit's fake thermite primer paint look nothing alike.

No picture of nanothermite even remotely resembles the Harrit stuff. Nanothermite piccies show - naturally - near-spherical particles in intimate contact.

 

[JayUtah]

Nanothermite piccies show - naturally - near-spherical particles in intimate contact.

Naturally naturally.

I am not convinced any of these Truthers know what about the "nano-" part of the legitimate science makes nanocomposites perform the way they do. It appears most of them just see it as some magical buzzword that is, somehow, their salvation.

 

[thedopefishlives]

Naturally naturally.

I am not convinced any of these Truthers know what about the "nano-" part of the legitimate science makes nanocomposites perform the way they do. It appears most of them just see it as some magical buzzword that is, somehow, their salvation.

It makes the substance sound futuristic, far beyond the advancements of "normal science". Remember, these are the guys who claim the U.S. military has a level of technological advancement 10+ years beyond the civilian scientific establishment - which is laughable if one has any familiarity with military procurement policies.

 

[BasqueArch]

I'm sure they could but it would spoil the whole point of their paper. This works also with their comment about the fact their thermite was more energetic then thermite could be perhaps because of some "organic contamination".

Yes, so what is more damning:
That they knew that the gray layer was steel but hid it to claim their magnet-resitivity-iron microspheres chicanery, or that they were too incompetent to recognize the gray slab was steel?

 

[000063]

Naturally naturally.

I am not convinced any of these Truthers know what about the "nano-" part of the legitimate science makes nanocomposites perform the way they do. It appears most of them just see it as some magical buzzword that is, somehow, their salvation.

To use a meme: "What bought down the towers?"
"Nanothermite, son!"

It makes the substance sound futuristic, far beyond the advancements of "normal science". Remember, these are the guys who claim the U.S. military has a level of technological advancement 10+ years beyond the civilian scientific establishment - which is laughable if one has any familiarity with military procurement policies.

 

[GlennB]

MM -

There was a time when you believed in the Jowensko-esque view that WTC7 was brought down by CD in an opportunistic manner - by CD teams storming in on the day itself. You quoted Danny liberally. You abandoned that because, iirc, it couldn't explain the 8-storey ~g collapse.

Then you agreed it 'must have been rigged for CD in advance' but couldn't explain how the perps might explain away 'the collapse that had no reason', given that there was no guarantee WTC7 would be significantly hit by WTC1 flaming debris.

So you moved to the notion that WTC7 was 'supposed' to collapse during/just after the WTC1 collapse, ignoring the fact that there would still be no good reason for #7 to fall at that time. You never did explain that idea of yours. #7 fell because of shock waves from the collapse of #1?

You've claimed that the explosive noise of the CD would be muffled by furnishings and the like, but still require the external columns to have been rigged, precluding any muffling in the region of those many columns. That makes no sense.

You believe that the elemental Al in Harrit's supposed nano-thermite might be packed into hexagonal platelets, far from the nearest iron oxide and totally unlike the very nano-thermites you quote in evidence?

And so on and so on.

Do you never, ever, step back and consider the massive inconsistencies in your beliefs? Or your total inability to put your beliefs together into a consistent narrative?

 

[DGM]

Yes, so what is more damning:
That they knew that the gray layer was steel but hid it to claim their magnet-resitivity-iron microspheres chicanery, or that they were too incompetent to recognize the gray slab was steel?

Tough call. The fact the new study starts with testing known primer paint to see if they can find "iron micro-spheres" does not speak well for their integrity.

 

[BasqueArch]

Tough call. The fact the new study starts with testing known primer paint to see if they can find "iron micro-spheres" does not speak well for their integrity.

noun: integrity
1. the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.


In their postmodern minds, the ends justifies the means. In the natural sciences integrity is absolute. That one tests primer paint (should have iron in it) without the rusted steel layer attached to it is lying by confirmation bias.

It may surprise rationals that conspiracists still believe themselves to be of high integrity, honest.
They lie for truth because they can't help it.

 

[Georgio]

I refer you first to the thread in this forum in which the published membership of AE911T is compared numerically against the population of suitably qualified practitioners.

But we really don't know what those suitably qualified professionals are and are not aware of in terms of AE911Truth's claims.

I'm very dubious about the validity of comparing people who signed the petition to people who, for all we know, may not have even heard of the petition or any of the claims that AE911Truth makes, or even the organization's existence. That's why I think there should be another petition that people can sign where they actively state that they are familiar with the claims of AE911Truth and they do not agree with them. I started a thread about it a while ago: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275097

If AE911Truth really is just an appeal to authority to convince lay-people to sign on and donate, then a much larger number of professionals signing on to an opposing petition would be far more effective in convincing lay-people of AE911Truth's disingenuousness than appeals to 'every other professional in the field'.

We can't just assume that everyone who hasn't signed the petition, relevantly qualified or not, knows about the organization and disagrees with its claims.

 

[DGM]

In their postmodern minds, the ends justifies the means...............

Their problem at this point is they have no "ends". Where exactly do they think they're going with this?

 

[BasqueArch]

Their problem at this point is they have no "ends". Where exactly do they think they're going with this?

Gage to New York and Paris.
And according to one thread here the Jesuits are going to take over the world for the Pope.

 

[DGM]

Gage to New York and Paris.
And according to one thread here the Jesuits are going to take over the world for the Pope.

That's the obvious part (although Gage seems to be traveling less).

My question is to the last remaining "truthers". Where exactly do you think you're going with this?

 

[LSSBB]

That's the obvious part (although Gage seems to be traveling less).

My question is to the last remaining "truthers". Where exactly do you think you're going with this?

It's not where they are going to, as much as what they are running from having to acknowledge.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

​

If you look at the nice floor plan you provided, column 79 is clearly not a perimeter column. The raw exterior of such a major column would have been enclosed and not visible.

Placing any kind of demolition device be it explosives, incendiaries, or otherwise requires access. And you're arguing this was done inside a used building. If you can point out the testimony that indicates there was an unusual amount of renovation activity and/or point out that there was physical evidence of the devices in the debris recovery/clean up, I'm game but you've done neither and appear interested in controlling the trajectory of the discussion to explicitly avoid such discussion.

 

[beachnut]

But we really don't know what those suitably qualified professionals are and are not aware of in terms of AE911Truth's claims.

I'm very dubious about the validity of comparing people who signed the petition to people who, for all we know, may not have even heard of the petition or any of the claims that AE911Truth makes, or even the organization's existence. That's why I think there should be another petition that people can sign where they actively state that they are familiar with the claims of AE911Truth and they do not agree with them. I started a thread about it a while ago: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275097

If AE911Truth really is just an appeal to authority to convince lay-people to sign on and donate, then a much larger number of professionals signing on to an opposing petition would be far more effective in convincing lay-people of AE911Truth's disingenuousness than appeals to 'every other professional in the field'.

We can't just assume that everyone who hasn't signed the petition, relevantly qualified or not, knows about the organization and disagrees with its claims.

What? Only idiots would agree with Gage's lies of CD, silent explosives, and thermite. These are clearly lies based on BS.
You don't need a petition to know Santa is fantasy, or Bigfoot; we don't vote on 2+2=4, it is a fact.

911 truth is BS, not reality. Your failed movement is in it's 13th year of nonsense, mocking those who died on 911 with lies.

WTC 7 burned all day and collapse - the dumbest smoking gun for CD 911 truth has. How does thermite, CD and silent explosives play into Flight 77, and Flight 93? Explain your movements failure to have a coherent story? Why are your peers in 911 truth so stupid to use WTC 7 as some smoking gun for their fantasy they can't explain?

Could you back that up please?

Please, 911 truth is a sick fantasy of CD, there are no rational engineers who would fall for the lies you have.
Why can't 911 truth prove CD? Because it is a fantasy. Why can't you debunk fantasy on face value; are you hiding some evidence for CD? 13 years and why can't you figure out 911?