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Michael Brown Shooting

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Skeptical Greg said:
As opposed to an illegitimate attempt?
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The moment anyone tries to overpower a cop, that's it as far as I'm concerned. I don't want to live in a society that gives criminally minded people latitude in attacking LEO's. If you're busted, just take your bust. Going after the officer because you broke a serious law and got caught, I want such a person OUT of the society I live in.

And before people start bleating "So you support summary execution, blah blah wonk wonk", don't. I haven't said that.
 
pakeha said:
Still, how is it people don't know the body has to stay in situ til everything's wrapped up?
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I blame CSI and cop shows where the first things they do is remove the body from the scene after a few photography. It all looks quick and sanatized in such shows.

The problem is those shows were a bit more realistic they would be called boring.

In the mean time people stand surprised when crime sene investigation takes hours, are surprised when DNA analyzis take a few days, fingerprint are not so clear cut and disputed, and when autopsy and analysis take weeks to be done.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
I will say that I usually side with the press, on principle, but this coverage has smacked of a conscious effort to keep the outrage alive for the sake of the story and it sickens me a little.
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True, the idea that the press would flog a story gives me the dry heaves and the screaming sweats.
 
Aepervius said:
I blame CSI and cop shows where the first things they do is remove the body from the scene after a few photography. It all looks quick and sanatized in such shows.

The problem is those shows were a bit more realistic they would be called boring.

In the mean time people stand surprised when crime sene investigation takes hours, are surprised when DNA analyzis take a few days, fingerprint are not so clear cut and disputed, and when autopsy and analysis take weeks to be done.
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The PCR process takes about 24 hours. Top priority DNA results take about 36 hours when you consider the time to get the sample to a lab, prepare it and check the results against a CODIS database. Low priority samples can take weeks or months. Samples from cold cases tend to be ignored for years.

The magic boxes that take a DNA sample or fingerprint and show a photo of the suspect in a few seconds don't exist.
 
@Skeptic_Ginger,
As always, I have enjoyed your posts and insightful reference to the facts that support your view.

I was wondering as I walked along yesterday, whether you had thought about what you would have done if you had been Wilson in a scenario that seems plausible that involves Brown charging Wilson.

Assume for the moment that you have been injured a bit in the altercation around the car and from that you realize that Brown is physically superior to you and is willing to attack you and take your gun if he gets the chance.

Do you think you would shoot at Brown as he comes toward you?

@anybody
One thing that seems surprising to me even if you assume the most favorable version of events to Wilson is the number of shots fired, especially what seems like it might have been the last shot to the head. How well could Brown be moving toward Wilson after he'd been shot several times in the arm? I'm surprised that the first hit didn't stop him in his tracks.
 
davefoc said:
@anybody
... How well could Brown be moving toward Wilson after he'd been shot several times in the arm? I'm surprised that the first hit didn't stop him in his tracks.
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Seems like it is very dependent on location hit (i.e. central nervous system) and the mental state of the victim (i.e. combative, adrenaline, drugs etc)

From: http://www.policemag.com/channel/we...opping-power-myths-legends-and-realities.aspx

"I have seen a .22 caliber bullet completely incapacitate someone and a .45 ACP fail to achieve that result. People and animals shot with 10mm rounds and .357 SIG rounds have continued to run from the police. ... [snipped]... I have also seen people hit with 9mm, .40, and .45 without so much as staggering or slowing their verbal or physical activities."
 
davefoc said:
@Skeptic_Ginger,
As always, I have enjoyed your posts and insightful reference to the facts that support your view.

I was wondering as I walked along yesterday, whether you had thought about what you would have done if you had been Wilson in a scenario that seems plausible that involves Brown charging Wilson.

Assume for the moment that you have been injured a bit in the altercation around the car and from that you realize that Brown is physically superior to you and is willing to attack you and take your gun if he gets the chance.

Do you think you would shoot at Brown as he comes toward you?

@anybody
One thing that seems surprising to me even if you assume the most favorable version of events to Wilson is the number of shots fired, especially what seems like it might have been the last shot to the head. How well could Brown be moving toward Wilson after he'd been shot several times in the arm? I'm surprised that the first hit didn't stop him in his tracks.
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PCP or some other drug, or a non-drug rage.

And if the first bullet hit the nerve that serves that whole inner arm area (Median nerve?) it would go numb instantly, and he would not know he ever received a bullet to the arm. Four times.

I severed my median nerve at the wrist. Didn't hurt a bit, even though the cut was bad enough that I could see moving parts inside. Years later a power tool got to a digital nerve, Same thing, no pain. ever again.
 
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Besides which, officers are trained to fire until the threat is stopped. Since people can live with bullets that surgeons tell them it's better not to remove, that explains it well enough for me.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Nothing was handled well in this case but as for how long a body lays on the ground depends on many different things from whether it's in the street or inside, whether there isa lot of evidence like foot prints and tire marks that need to be collected before the crime scene is contaminated, how backed up the coroner is or whether one has to come from a long distance away.

In this case some careful photos, marking the location of blood and things that fell away from Brown and the locations of the shell casings and the vehicles on the street including Wilson's is about all that would be needed.

I don't know what the circumstances were, I have no comment that the length of time was necessary or unnecessary. My only comment is that the police don't appear to have made much of an effort to manage the scene well, letting people know either in a press conference or some other way what was going on, why they hadn't moved the body and so on.

A little PR could have gone a long way in making these neighbors feel respected.
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So if you were called upon to write a police press release at 4:00 p.m., what would you say.
 
casebro said:
PCP or some other drug, or a non-drug rage.

And if the first bullet hit the nerve that serves that whole inner arm area (Median nerve?) it would go numb instantly, and he would not know he ever received a bullet to the arm. Four times.

I severed my median nerve at the wrist. Didn't hurt a bit, even though the cut was bad enough that I could see moving parts inside. Years later a power tool got to a digital nerve, Same thing, no pain. ever again.
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Lord Uxbridge's exchange with Wellington at Waterloo is another example.

Uxbridge: By God, sir, I've lost my leg!
Wellington: By God, sir, so you have!
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Nothing was handled well in this case <snip> A little PR could have gone a long way in making these neighbors feel respected.
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Ladewig said:
So if you were called upon to write a police press release at 4:00 p.m., what would you say.
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I don't know how -- if Skeptic Ginger was an experienced police commander -- how Skeptic Ginger would've handled the post-incident response, but I agree with her this incident was not handled well. This kind of incident and it's violent aftermath is something other police departments went through years ago and have developed strategies to deal with. The first step is in recognizing the community as an equal partner and for some departments that is the biggest hurdle of all. NYPD has done a lot of work through the community outreach plan to address these issues and it has worked fairly well. One step was to get local clergy involved:

Clergy Liaison Program: The Clergy Liaison Program formalizes the important relationship between members of the clergy, their congregations and the police department, especially during times of community crisis or unrest. Each precinct commander may nominate up to five clergy from across denominations to serve as a link between the Department and the various congregations and faith groups in that community. Link
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Monketey Ghost said:
I will say that I usually side with the press, on principle, but this coverage has smacked of a conscious effort to keep the outrage alive for the sake of the story and it sickens me a little.
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Yeah, CNN is getting desperate to find new angles.

And, frankly, I think what is going in Iraq is probably more urgent and important then Ferguson where it is pretty clear nothing of any real importance involving the case is going to happen for a few weeks.
 
dudalb said:
Yeah, CNN is getting desperate to find new angles.

And, frankly, I think what is going in Iraq is probably more urgent and important then Ferguson where it is pretty clear nothing of any real importance involving the case is going to happen for a few weeks.
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Truth. Plus one.
 
Now there is talk of Pro Wilson demonstrators wanting to demonstrate in Ferguson. IMHO they should have the same right and protections that the Anti Wilson demonstartors have.
If this becomes a major issue I think we will see quite a bit of hypocrisy here.
 
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