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Michael Brown Shooting

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Skeptic Ginger said:
.....But what people are talking about is not that the body was unattended for hours, what the complaint was, was that the body was left an unnecessarily long time on the street before it was removed.
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Deemed unnecessary by whom?
All the neighborhood forensic and legal experts?


If it had been whisked away in a hurry, well, I'll let you extrapolate on that one...


KatieG said:
His body was left on the street for hours, blanket or no blanket. That was one of the things that outraged so many people.
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See above...
 
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I will say that I usually side with the press, on principle, but this coverage has smacked of a conscious effort to keep the outrage alive for the sake of the story and it sickens me a little.
 
Kestrel said:
When a murder victim was discovered near my home, it took about 10 hours before her body was removed.
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Nothing was handled well in this case but as for how long a body lays on the ground depends on many different things from whether it's in the street or inside, whether there isa lot of evidence like foot prints and tire marks that need to be collected before the crime scene is contaminated, how backed up the coroner is or whether one has to come from a long distance away.

In this case some careful photos, marking the location of blood and things that fell away from Brown and the locations of the shell casings and the vehicles on the street including Wilson's is about all that would be needed.

I don't know what the circumstances were, I have no comment that the length of time was necessary or unnecessary. My only comment is that the police don't appear to have made much of an effort to manage the scene well, letting people know either in a press conference or some other way what was going on, why they hadn't moved the body and so on.

A little PR could have gone a long way in making these neighbors feel respected.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
I will say that I usually side with the press, on principle, but this coverage has smacked of a conscious effort to keep the outrage alive for the sake of the story and it sickens me a little.
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But the press isn't the only one. There were 168 arrests, but only 7 arestees were residents of Ferguson. People flocked from miles around, including hiring buses to come in from out of state. All those people wearing gas masks? Do you think the people in Ferguson keep them handy? (I misplaced mine. Where do you keep yours?) Or do you think it betrays some malice and aforethought in the out of town inciters?
 
Giz said:
You said that "if the evidence looks equivocal or ambiguous and they let him go, it will be bad news". I was pointing out that under our system of law, they would have to let him go in such circumstances.
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Yes but you missed the context and key issue there.

If St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCulloch prosecutes the case and the evidence is equivocal or ambiguous it will be bad news.

Even the governor in his interview with CNN's Don Lemon just doesn't get the problem. He said the reason he wasn't calling on McCulloch to step down was because the people elected him. That shows complete indifference to appearances. McCulloch in any situation where recusal is normal would be recused. His father was a cop killed by a black man that took the cop's gun away.

No juror with that background would be kept on the jury. No judge with that background wouldn't be asked to recuse him/herself.

These people, the assistant police chief, the mayor who said there was no racism problem, the prosecutor who won't recuse himself, and the governor are deaf and blind to the black community in Ferguson.

Even a petition signed by 70,000 people asking McCulloch recuse himself was ignored.
 
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casebro said:
But the press isn't the only one. There were 168 arrests, but only 7 arestees were residents of Ferguson. People flocked from miles around, including hiring buses to come in from out of state. All those people wearing gas masks? Do you think the people in Ferguson keep them handy? (I misplaced mine. Where do you keep yours?) Or do you think it betrays some malice and aforethought in the out of town inciters?
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The number of outsiders arrested could be passed off as non-local people simply out to be inciters... or it could be legitimate protesters with a peaceful grievance like most of the locals. It's impossible to say without knowing more about the reason for the arrests.

Given that such a large majority of the arrested are outsiders (out of town, out of state?) it appears at least that those folks were more interested in... call it vigorous protest... than the locals.
 
casebro said:
But the press isn't the only one. There were 168 arrests, but only 7 arestees were residents of Ferguson. People flocked from miles around, including hiring buses to come in from out of state. All those people wearing gas masks? Do you think the people in Ferguson keep them handy? (I misplaced mine. Where do you keep yours?) Or do you think it betrays some malice and aforethought in the out of town inciters?
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Most of those arrested were from the St. Loius metro area. All but three of the arrests on Monday were for failure to dispurse.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jail-records-odds-ferguson-cops-claims-outsiders-causing/story?id=25038886
 
Hypothetical- the pros with the gas masks know how far to go without being arrested?

Who the heck owns a gas mask?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Nothing was handled well in this case but as for how long a body lays on the ground depends on many different things from whether it's in the street or inside, whether there isa lot of evidence like foot prints and tire marks that need to be collected before the crime scene is contaminated, how backed up the coroner is or whether one has to come from a long distance away.

In this case some careful photos, marking the location of blood and things that fell away from Brown and the locations of the shell casings and the vehicles on the street including Wilson's is about all that would be needed.

I don't know what the circumstances were, I have no comment that the length of time was necessary or unnecessary. My only comment is that the police don't appear to have made much of an effort to manage the scene well, letting people know either in a press conference or some other way what was going on, why they hadn't moved the body and so on.

A little PR could have gone a long way in making these neighbors feel respected.
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PR?
Are you serious?

What would have helped?
Hand-out sheets on crime scene investigation?
A Town Hall conference?



Skeptic Ginger said:
[ . . . ]But what people are talking about is not that the body was unattended for hours, what the complaint was, was that the body was left an unnecessarily long time on the street before it was removed.
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Kestrel said:
Most of those arrested were from the St. Loius metro area. All but three of the arrests on Monday were for failure to dispurse.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jail-records-odds-ferguson-cops-claims-outsiders-causing/story?id=25038886
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From that link:

" 78 people arrested Monday night included four from Ferguson and eight from neighboring Florissant. Another 10 came from the nearby city of St. Louis, and a smattering from other small towns in St. Louis County. Fifty-three in total were from the St. Louis metro area.

All but three of the arrests Monday night were for refusal to disperse. Two of the individuals charged with unlawful use of a weapon were from the St. Louis area. One out-of-state resident, from Rockton, Ill., was charged with interfering with an officer, according to records provided by St. Louis County jail.

Eighteen of those arrested Monday night were from out of state. Those suspects came from Chicago, Brooklyn, N.Y., California, Washington, D.C., Austin, Texa..."

So 20% of the worst are from out of state.

Who owns a gas mask ? Why?
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
It was a minor theft and shove. How does that excuse it?


Wait, never mind. Why am I bothering?:rolleyes:
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Minimizing the act and trying to convince people that it's not a robbery is part of making excuses. If Brown is still alive today he's facing 5-15, that's the law in MO, despite what you want to call it.

It seems you don't want to believe that it's possible Brown could have assaulted Wilson, but robbery just prior to their confrontation is cause for any reasonable person to reason that it absolutely is possible.

I'm thinking you should change your username. Skeptic doesn't belong in there.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
pakeha said:
PR?
Are you serious?

What would have helped?
Hand-out sheets on crime scene investigation?
A Town Hall conference?
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We don't need to have the facts to determine what an unnecessarily long time is, it seems.
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On the other hand let's be honest- it's awful to see a body in the street/sidewalk/whatever.
Still, how is it people don't know the body has to stay in situ til everything's wrapped up?
 
Maybe this is something the police need to work on. Even for murder victims sometimes the way the body is handled is the final indignity. Just one more brutality the family has to endure.

I recently saw, on an episode of Forty Eight Hours, where in Cleveland or Dallas, a man who had been murdered in his car was removed from the scene by tow truck. Yes it was a black man. After they processed the crime scene polce had a tow truck hook up to the car with the body still in it. They put a tarp over the car.

There's got to be a better way. Has to be.
 
pakeha said:
On the other hand let's be honest- it's awful to see a body in the street/sidewalk/whatever.
Still, how is it people don't know the body has to stay in situ til everything's wrapped up?
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I think they do, at heart. By now I would think that it's fairly established in the public mind that when there's a situation involving a body, various groups have to come in, coordinate with each other, and take photos and analyze the scene in many different ways.

But it's easy to crowd around the scene and criticize because you have *nothing else* to do ...and, I should add, the internet.
 
Lerxst said:
Minimizing the act and trying to convince people that it's not a robbery is part of making excuses. If Brown is still alive today he's facing 5-15, that's the law in MO, despite what you want to call it.
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Reality is that without a prior record, the charges would be plea bargained down to something like disorderly conduct and petty theft. The defendant would be sentenced to probation, pay a fine, and do some community service.
 
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