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Michael Brown Shooting

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12AX7 said:
There's some incredible armchair forensic expertise in this thread though.
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We have been learning about it since the Warren commission.

Everyone also seems to be cognizant of the best ways to handle crowd control, rioting, interactions with the press, and which order information needs to be released in to provoke a desired result.

We are social animals, we like to converse.
 
Ladewig said:
I am starting to wish journalism schools had a required course called "stuff you really need to know before you open your mouth on TV."

They could spend a couple of days at a gun range learning what guns can and cannot do. Run some Tueller drills.
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One question. If Brown did rush the cop, did that happen before or after the shooting started?
 
By the way, for someone with an orbital blowout fracture, Wilson looks uninjured in the video of his pacing around at the scene.

CNN showed a close up of Wilson pacing around at the crime scene.

It's Piaget Crenshaw's: Interview and video clip

I think this is a still of Wilson at the scene.

CNN zoomed in, identified Wilson, and he was seen pacing near the body in the clip.

Between the single less than credible source, the fact no mainstream news outlets have picked up the story, and the fact Wilson is at the crime scene in videos without any obvious serious facial injury I think it's time to call the orbital fracture claim a fraud.
 
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a_unique_person said:
One question. If Brown did rush the cop, did that happen before or after the shooting started?
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Who knows? Who cares?

Should we really agonize over details we can never know with certainty unless a video surfaces... when we're talking about a violent felon killed by a cop he had assaulted moments earlier?

I'm sure it was all very hectic and happened very fast. If losing his cool and overreacting could be conclusively demonstrated on Officer Wilson's part, I think most reasonable people would understand that.

Someone who assaults a police officer after having just assaulted a store owner gets shot by said police officer in the seconds following their assault on him, and I'm meant to be concerned about this for some reason? I'm meant to feel this was tragic? Unjust? Cause for some sort of societal introspection and a national "conversation"?

Please.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
By the way, for someone with an orbital blowout fracture, Wilson looks uninjured in the video of his pacing around at the scene.

CNN showed a close up of Wilson pacing around at the crime scene.

It's Piaget Crenshaw's: Interview and video clip

I think this is a still of Wilson at the scene.

CNN zoomed in, identified Wilson, and he was seen pacing near the body in the clip.

Between the single less than credible source, the fact no mainstream news outlets have picked up the story, and the fact Wilson is at the crime scene in videos without any obvious serious facial injury I think it's time to call the orbital fracture claim a fraud.
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I wouldn't expect to see anything but swelling/redness until the bruise develops.

Plus, very poor resolution.
 
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a_unique_person said:
People are making plenty of assumptions here. We don't even know the answer to the question I just asked, which seems pretty crucial to understanding what happened.
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Brown wouldn't charge a cop, but he would charge a cop that is already shooting at him?

Technically, the shooting began at the car door if witnesses are to be believed, and if Johnson is to be believed, Brown was already bleeding a lot at the car door.

We should have a blood pool wherever Brown was not moving, according to Johnson.

If Brown stood still anywhere after the car shot, we should see blood on the ground.
 
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a_unique_person said:
One question. If Brown did rush the cop, did that happen before or after the shooting started?
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The third-hand Wilson narrative:

1. Saw two pedestrians walking in the road. Stopped, rolled the window down, and ordered them out of the street.

2. Pulled down the street some distance and stooped to observe the pedestrians. Possibly during this interval he received a BOLO-type information about the c-store robbery.

3. Reversed car to the pedestrian position. When he tried opening the door of the patrol car, it was slammed shut possibly by Brown. At this position, an altercation occurred where Brown punched Wilson in the face.

4. At some point during this altercation, Wilson and Brown struggled over Wilson's service weapon. The weapon was discharged.

5. Brown and Johnson attempted to leave. Wilson left the vehicle, pointed his weapon and ordered the two to stop. Brown turned, began taunting Wilson and charged toward him. Wilson began firing into Brown until he was stopped.

According to that sequence, Brown rushed Wilson after one shot was fired inside the vehicle, but before Wilson started firing into Brown.

Here's the recording:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzBdY6WXeRE
 
a_unique_person said:
People are making plenty of assumptions here. We don't even know the answer to the question I just asked, which seems pretty crucial to understanding what happened.
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You are correct, of course. It is within the realm of possibility that Mr. Brown began a charge toward officer Wilson after the policeman had begun firing, we don't know that that didnt happen. There isn't enough information, and may never be, to state unequivocally that was not the case.

In another thread one can find pages of posts discussing groups people who are so certain that they know what happened that they are protesting( sometimes traveling hundreds of miles to do so) ,calling for officer Wilson to be charged with murder, and rioting and looting to express their outrage over what happened. Their certainty is compelling, but not so much to make me drop what I am doing to join the lynch mob.
 
LTC8K6 said:
I wouldn't expect to see anything but swelling/redness until the bruise develops.

Plus, very poor resolution.
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I wasn't talking about no visible injuries, the video is too grainy. I'm talking about the inconsistency in having such a serious injury and not leaving to have the injury seen. He's not so much as holding a cold pack to his face.
 
A second later Johnson said he heard the first shot go off.

“I seen the fire come out of the barrell,” he said. “I could see so vividly what was going on because I was so close.”

Johnson says he was within arm’s reach of both Brown and the officer. He looked over at Brown and saw blood pooling through his shirt on the right side of the body.

“The whole time [the officer] was holding my friend until the gun went off,” Johnson noted.
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http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri

Johnson has blood soaking through Brown's shirt at the car door from the first gunshot. Right side of Brown's shirt.

Is Johnson specific about the right side because by then he has seen photos of the body, or heard about the autopsy?

Or did he really see blood pooling right away?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I wasn't talking about no visible injuries, the video is too grainy. I'm talking about the inconsistency in having such a serious injury and not leaving to have the injury seen. He's not so much as holding a cold pack to his face.
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Still full of adrenaline, has a job to do, afraid, worried what other officers think, what onlookers think, trying to "man up" and ignore/downplay injury due to expectations of males and cops... and people have died before due to these sorts of "I'm fine, seriously I said I'm fine" type of reactions.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I wasn't talking about no visible injuries, the video is too grainy. I'm talking about the inconsistency in having such a serious injury and not leaving to have the injury seen. He's not so much as holding a cold pack to his face.
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I wouldn't want medical attention for a punch in the face, unless I knew there was a broken eye socket.

Besides, EMS was called at 12:04.
 
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