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Michael Brown Shooting

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Mike! said:
I don't think he had "minutes" from the time he possibly (There for your sake only, SG) punched the officer and when he hit the pavement, face first. I'd bet much less than a minute myself. This stuff happens in seconds, not minutes.
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Time yourself pushing a car door and running 30 or so feet, then turning around. It's enough time for swelling and redness to begin if someone punched a person in the face. You can see capillary ruptures right away with a microscope. Any tissue damage while the heart is still beating is going to show on microscopic exam on an autopsy.

We don't know the trajectory of the kill shot, yet, I think you are reaching for straws now.
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And I think you missed this morning's press conference with Dr Baden. He said he couldn't say why Brown's head was bent over, but he could say it was, and Brown dropped leaving abrasions on the face that showed he dropped, combined with the brain injury making that head shot the kill shot.
 
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Skeptical Greg said:
Where did I say that was your claim?

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_cbafa12e-7305-5fd7-8e0e-3139f472d130.html


You are questioning whether Brown was stupid or suicidal; that if Wilson's account is true, and Brown was normally seen as a ' gentle giant ' then we have to account for Brown's belligerent behavior..

Couldn't drugs account for aberrant behavior ?

You need to give up on the top of the head kill shot as if it were a known fact.
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The autopsy information available thus far is pretty specific about a shot striking the top of Mr. Browns' head.

Whys that is so damning, according to some, is confusing to me. The top of ones head is often exposed while moving around, from a little distance even someone shorter than you can occasionally get a glimpse of your pate.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Time yourself pushing a car door and running 30 or so feet, then turning around. It's enough time for swelling and redness to begin if someone punched a person in the face. You can see capillary ruptures right away with a microscope. Any tissue damage while the heart is still beating is going to show on microscopic exam on an autopsy.
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30/35 feet isn't that far, less than two cars. Even a big boy can cover that fairly quickly, even in flip flops.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Time yourself pushing a car door and running 30 or so feet, then turning around. It's enough time for swelling and redness to begin if someone punched a person in the face. You can see capillary ruptures right away with a microscope. Any tissue damage while the heart is still beating is going to show on microscopic exam on an autopsy.

And I think you missed this morning's press conference with Dr Baden.
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Average person goes 30 feet in 1 to 3 seconds.
 
Distracted1 said:
The autopsy information available thus far is pretty specific about a shot striking the top of Mr. Browns' head.

Whys that is so damning, according to some, is confusing to me. The top of ones head is often exposed while moving around, from a little distance even someone shorter than you can occasionally get a glimpse of your pate.
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And we don't know the trajectory of the kill shot, yet. Could have gone it at an angle, then scrambled the egg inside. I'm guessing SG figures it went in straight down. We don't have that information, ether way.
 
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Kaosium said:
I don't think anyone in the thread argued it, but the mother of Michael Brown did say:

"McSpadden said she doesn't understand why police didn't subdue her son with a club or Taser instead of shooting him, and she said the officer involved should be fired and prosecuted.

"I would like to see him go to jail with the death penalty," she said Sunday at the site of the shooting, fighting back tears."​

Some have attributed the same or a similar quote to the father as well. That would require a conviction of murder in the first degree.
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Brown's mother is posting in the thread?

If people want to gripe about the family or the neighbors then they need to be clear they are not addressing people in the thread.
 
Distracted1 said:
Does the reporter have a medical report detailing the damage to his forehead?
Is he pressing charges?
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If you're using that as your justification for their conduct not being illegal then you can't call Michael Brown a felon for his actions in the Ferguson Market.

When LEOs tell us to get out of an area during a riot, should we comply? Or should we each require an explanation right then and there from each officer involved in whatever level of detail we require?
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I looked into it a couple nights back and these riots weren't exactly widespread or that destructive other than property damage. That may have changed since, I've not yet seen an update about last night, but at the time that was an overreaction and the WP reporters have a right to take their own chances inside a building. Had they been in the streets and ordered to disperse that's another situation and I can see arguments for it, but not inside a McDonalds as long as they were not unwanted by the establishment.

The cops did behave like ********, but when I get detained I am usually pretty happy that it ends with letting me go instead of bringing me before a judge.
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Betcha they'd have been even happier if they were just grabbed once and then cowed by someone who left as opposed to shackled and frogmarched out the door, bounced off the glass door, then thrown in a cage with miscreants and not allowed to leave for a while.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
No, Wilson could have acted out of anger, making mistakes. That's not anything close to "insane".

I believe Brown could have fought the cop through the car window, also a mistake, reactive self defense and not insane.

What's insane is Brown charging at Wilson who had a gun drawn. It's much less likely that happened than Brown was giving up and getting down on the ground.
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The problem is, we know with a fair degree of confidence that Michael Brown did at least three very dumb things in the previous ten minutes: he robbed a convenience store and intimidated his way out of the shop in front of a video camera; he then walked down the middle of the road, attracting the attention of a police patrol car; and then he entered into an altercation with the police officer. These things make it very hard to rule out further dumb behaviour, especially since Brown was just 18 years old.
 
Distracted1 said:
How someone runs at another person they intend to tackle, or run through.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130805070653-art-donovan-restricted-horizontal-gallery.jpg

Silly looking image, I know. There are others that demonstrate the position of the body during a charge more clearly, but they all seemed to be prejudicial in nature.
As this man runs towards the camera, the top of his head is completely exposed.
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Why did you pick a white man? Poisoning the well? :)
 
Modified said:
When I was that age, I basically did not bruise at all. Even when I was hit by a car at 50 mph, I had no visible bruising, just some swelling where the bumper hit my lower leg. The only visible bruise I can remember was when I jumped a sled off a ramp and landed on my jaw. At that age I could have punched someone hard enough to break my hand and not had any damage visible on the surface, as long as I didn't scrape the skin.
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I'm not talking about a bruise. I'm talking about microscopic capillary damage.

If the officer's face was injured by a fist, that fist would have hit the face hard enough to also be damaged. Getting shot a minute or a few minutes later (by the way, according to Josie that included time for Brown to turn, taunt Wilson, then charge at him) still leaves enough time for microscopic capillary damage.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
No, Wilson could have acted out of anger, making mistakes. That's not anything close to "insane". I believe Brown could have fought the cop through the car window, also a mistake, reactive self defense and not insane. What's insane is Brown charging at Wilson who had a gun drawn. It's much less likely that happened than Brown was giving up and getting down on the ground.
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That was mentioned. That Wilson blew his fuse because Brown had put his hands on him, possibly punched him in the eye, possibly tried to grab his gun, and he got out of the car and shot Brown down. That's pretty much what the eyewitnesses have said happened. I'm not sure how the police are going to be able to prove something different. But experience tells me in these kinds of cases the police officer usually, not always, but usually walks.

I go all the way back to a case in Brooklyn where a cop was accused of killing an unarmed teenaged car thief by shooting him in the back. His own partner testified against him and he still walked!

Distracted1 said:
My feeling thus far is that you are even arguing against that when trying to cancel your subscription to AOL.
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There's been a lot of posts in this thread that are clear MA violations and should be taken down. My complaint is these kinds of posts clog the thread and make any kind of rational discussion a lot harder.
 
Distracted1 said:
Average person.....30 feet.......1 to 3 seconds....

Care to retract?
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I paced it off in my hallway. From a standing start, I made it in 2.5 seconds. It's not a lot of distance to cover.

I'm normal weight, height, and normal fitness level.
 
David Wong said:
Then why does Wilson shoot him in that scenario?
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Wilson is pissed and high on adrenalin. Cops shoot when that happens.

I think he got out of the car and started shooting and didn't stop until Brown was dead. That is consistent with the witnesses and the autopsy. Wilson's story (via Josie so it's not certain) is inconsistent with the witnesses and a shot to the forehead is not a shot to the top of the head, the autopsy is inconsistent with Wilson's account.
 
Modified said:
When I was that age, I basically did not bruise at all. Even when I was hit by a car at 50 mph, I had no visible bruising, just some swelling where the bumper hit my lower leg...
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I can't think of anything to counter this. ;)
 
Mike! said:
Timing myself, walking 35 feet took only 11 seconds. I think I could do better running, and I'm 55.
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Did you stop, turn around and say a few taunts?

It doesn't matter, the damage is done at the time of the blow, the body doesn't delay the response.

This argument is a waste of time.
 
If Brown was going down, why is it hard for you to imagine that Wilson targeted or was seeing forehead, but the bullet struck the top of the head?

Skeptic Ginger said:
Did you stop, turn around and say a few taunts?

It doesn't matter, the damage is done at the time of the blow, the body doesn't delay the response.

This argument is a waste of time.
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Have you ever seen a hand with a fresh gunshot wound?
 
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