Continuation Part 10: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Strozzi]

As far as I know, the only complaints Meredith ever made to anybody were in the form of casual gossip with the English women. Amanda kept a vibrator in their shared bathroom. Amanda didn't know that she was supposed to use a toilet brush to clean up after herself every time she used the bathroom. Amanda played the same guitar chord over and over. Amanda was too loud.

It's all irrelevant, though, because the sniping goes the wrong way. Amanda liked Meredith, never spoke ill of her, and of course did not kill her out of jealousy, rage, pique, or for any other reason.

The real question is how Mignini got from Meredith talking smack about Amanda to Amanda hating her enough to murder her. Crazytown stuff.

Machiavelli, please, can you answer this? You have good insight into Mignini's thinking.

 

[Strozzi]

Talking smack to me means that instead of being straightforward with Amanda (Hey, it's grossing me out a little to see that dorky rabbit thing in our bathroom!) Meredith said as much to her English friends, according to them anyway -- but didn't say anything to Amanda herself.

It's ordinary how-to-be-housemates stuff that we all figure out as we go along. Be honest. Take care of your own messes. Let people know if they're doing something that bugs you so it can get resolved.

Irrelevant to the case, unless you're Mignini and able to somehow spin a little immature behavior on Meredith's part into Amanda's towering, murderous rage. He's crazy.

I know Meredith told her English girlfriends about Amanda' joke vibrator, but I don't know if Meredith was really uptight about it or if that is Sophie Puritan's (sp? ) spin on it. Don't forget that Meredith was bumming condoms from Amanda's toilet bag.

 

[Desert Fox]

The point I was making was that whilst in continental Europe there were religious courts who could use torture to extract confessions, and confession was important for religious reasons, and could punish people simply for being a witch. In England most of the trials were not for being a witch but for a tort, e.g. killing a cow, putting the cows off their milk, but by witchcraft as opposed to poisoning, even when found guilty the punishment might be a fine. Most people convicted of a crime using witchcraft were not executed.

In comparison 300 people were executed for being protestants during the reign of Mary 1. It was more dangerous to be (the wrong sort of) christian than a witch. Executions for trivial crimes were common. So the numbers have to be taken against the frequency of execution for all offences.

May not be related but many problems in the United States are tied to both prosecutors and judges being elected.
How are their chosen in the United Kingdom?

 

[Desert Fox]

I know Meredith told her English girlfriends about Amanda' joke vibrator, but I don't know if Meredith was really uptight about it or if that is Sophie Puritan's (sp? ) spin on it. Don't forget that Meredith was bumming condoms from Amanda's toilet bag.

Sophie probably just wished it was hers. Not sure how it would matter if Amanda used it on a regular manner. As far as safe sex, you don't get much safer than using toys.

 

[Planigale]

May not be related but many problems in the United States are tied to both prosecutors and judges being elected.
How are their chosen in the United Kingdom?

Prosecution is the crown prosecution service for England - national civil service lawyers. Who will decide whether to prosecute is it in the public interest and on the balance of the probabilities will they get a conviction (BARD). The prosecutor in court will be a barrister, self employed gun for hire lawyers who will specialise in areas of law e.g. criminal and do both defence and prosecution (in different cases obviously), though some tend to be more defence and others more prosecution. The judges will be selected from successful barristers. You can be a part time judge and also be a prosecuting and defence lawyer, senior judges will be full time. In theory they are royal appointments though on the advice of the Lord Chancellor advised by the judicial appointments committee. So no elected officials in the legal system in the UK. Wales and northern Ireland are very similar. Scotland has its own system somewhat different, but no elected persons.

 

[acbytesla]

I know Meredith told her English girlfriends about Amanda' joke vibrator, but I don't know if Meredith was really uptight about it or if that is Sophie Puritan's (sp? ) spin on it. Don't forget that Meredith was bumming condoms from Amanda's toilet bag.

Why don't I believe that Meredith was actually bothered by the vibrator? Maybe because we are talking about the year 2007 not 1947. Sitcoms in the US like Sex in the City, Friends, Seinfeld and How I Met your Mother have had entire shows discussing sex toys and masturbation. Amanda and Meredith were 20 year old sexually active women away in Italy trying to learn and have fun. Frankly, I don't think the sexual morays in England are any more or less conservative than in the US. Neither seem like prudes scared of the big bad world.

Now the truth is, I don't know for sure, but if Meredith was bothered by it she would be the exception and not the rule. But my guess if she was, all she probably would have had to say is "Amanda, could you do me a favor and keep your vibrator in your own room".

Certainly, nobody is going to get killed over a rabbit vibrator.

 

[acbytesla]

I honestly don't think I could write any other kind. Mignini could be straight out of a G&S.

Gilbert and Sullivan???

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Why don't I believe that Meredith was actually bothered by the vibrator? Maybe because we are talking about the year 2007 not 1947. Sitcoms in the US like Sex in the City, Friends, Seinfeld and How I Met your Mother have had entire shows discussing sex toys and masturbation. Amanda and Meredith were 20 year old sexually active women away in Italy trying to learn and have fun. Frankly, I don't think the sexual morays in England are any more or less conservative than in the US. Neither seem like prudes scared of the big bad world.

Now the truth is, I don't know for sure, but if Meredith was bothered by it she would be the exception and not the rule. But my guess if she was, all she probably would have had to say is "Amanda, could you do me a favor and keep your vibrator in your own room".

Certainly, nobody is going to get killed over a rabbit vibrator.

Nobody is going to get killed over a vibrator, granted. A wise man recently told me, "If you put two Brits in a room, they won't speak to each other, other than perhaps asking about the weather."

My point is, I think Brits are more conservative and more reserved than Americans, so it is remotely possible the vibrator may have bothered MK, but I surely don't think she ever would have been confrontational about it... or anything for that matter.

 

[Desert Fox]

There was a woman apparently killed by her Dildo
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ex-toy-watching-porn-coroner-article-1.465860

 

[Chris_Halkides]

What did C and V say with respect to Sollecito

Agreed CJ. Balding's analysis says nothing about contamination issues. He starts where Stef stops and assumes the data she provides as a given. He does, however, claim that Raffaele's profile is among those Stefanoni claims she found on the clasp which, I think, distinguishes him from C-V.

anglolawyer,

I don't quite follow you. My understanding is that Conti and Vecchiotti agree that Sollecito's DNA is present, but they go on to say that there is additional DNA, both in the standard (autosomal) profile and the Y chromosomal profile.

 

[JREF2010]

anglolawyer,

I don't quite follow you. My understanding is that Conti and Vecchiotti agree that Sollecito's DNA is present, but they go on to say that there is additional DNA, both in the standard (autosomal) profile and the Y chromosomal profile.

Wasn't it Vecchiotti who said that she could even find the president of the courts DNA on the clasp depending on which way the mixed traces were interpreted?

 

[acbytesla]

Nobody is going to get killed over a vibrator, granted. A wise man recently told me, "If you put two Brits in a room, they won't speak to each other, other than perhaps asking about the weather."

My point is, I think Brits are more conservative and more reserved than Americans, so it is remotely possible the vibrator may have bothered MK, but I surely don't think she ever would have been confrontational about it... or anything for that matter.

You know you may be right Ampulla. But my experience is that I can't tell the difference at all, except for the accent. I just thought that was a stereotype that might have been true in the 30s ,maybe even the 60s, but the world just seems so small now, that Americans and the Brits have much a shared experience. We watch a lot of the same movies, same tv shows etc. etc. etc. Outside of the different games of football and other sports, I really never thought that there was much difference at all.

Maybe a few more Brits could weigh in. I did do a little research and most articles I have read show the UK to be actually more liberal about sex than the US as a whole. But much of the reason for that it that middle America is much more conservative than people who live on the coasts which of course would include Amanda Knox.

I'm still looking for some real studies that compare countries attitudes about sex.

 

[platonov]

Groundhog's all the way down

When I use sarcasm, I like there to be some tie into reality.
That way, somebody can look at it as sarcasm but still consider it as making a point.

Well, you are correct in a sense.
There is no tie in to 'reality' in the comparison of 'mine'.
However I didn't come up with it out of the blue – it was a reference to the comparisons made, by groupies on these threads, between the treatment of Britney and the Stalinist KGB (sic) show trials and interrogation (sleep deprivation) techniques.

These arguments, like most of the recent groupie arguments, long predate the join dates of most current posters.
If you read the threads you would have caught the reference & the responses to the nonsensical arguments you are repeating for the 400th time.

.
It is difficult to be sarcastic when one is on the 'butt' side of the fence. Platonov should consider switching sides so he has ammunition to work with.

Cody
.

Really

Should I riff (again) on the comparisons between the persecution of Britney and ..........
- The holocaust
- D Day
- Jesus Christ (Trial of)
- Mandela (Trial of)
- Dreyfus (Trial of)
- Tom Cruise ?
- Salem Witch Trials
etc etc etc

 

[NancyS]

Nobody is going to get killed over a vibrator, granted. A wise man recently told me, "If you put two Brits in a room, they won't speak to each other, other than perhaps asking about the weather."

My point is, I think Brits are more conservative and more reserved than Americans, so it is remotely possible the vibrator may have bothered MK, but I surely don't think she ever would have been confrontational about it... or anything for that matter.

I doubt whether she was particularly bothered about it, us Brits are not very conservative and any young person starting university would have been bombarded with flavoured condoms etc. However, I can imagine she would have told her friends in an 'OMG, why doesn't she keep it hidden' kind of way. There is a terrible stereotype that American students in Europe are loud, and annoying and I am not at all surprised that Meredith and her friends would talk about Amanda behind her back. This says far more about Meredith and her friends than Amanda though

 

[anglolawyer]

anglolawyer,

I don't quite follow you. My understanding is that Conti and Vecchiotti agree that Sollecito's DNA is present, but they go on to say that there is additional DNA, both in the standard (autosomal) profile and the Y chromosomal profile.

I may well stand corrected. I shall re-read. Thanks.

 

[anglolawyer]

You know you may be right Ampulla. But my experience is that I can't tell the difference at all, except for the accent. I just thought that was a stereotype that might have been true in the 30s ,maybe even the 60s, but the world just seems so small now, that Americans and the Brits have much a shared experience. We watch a lot of the same movies, same tv shows etc. etc. etc. Outside of the different games of football and other sports, I really never thought that there was much difference at all.

Maybe a few more Brits could weigh in. I did do a little research and most articles I have read show the UK to be actually more liberal about sex than the US as a whole. But much of the reason for that it that middle America is much more conservative than people who live on the coasts which of course would include Amanda Knox.

I'm still looking for some real studies that compare countries attitudes about sex.

Personally, and FWIW, I think of Brits as more reserved than yanks. On my recent visit across the pond, I was struck a couple of times by friendly conversations struck up among Americans who didn't know each other. The vibrator thing is different, though. Again, FWIW, I suspect this non-issue has been blown out of proportion by a prosecutor desperately looking for a motive and perhaps in the minds of the virgins by the operation of hindsight.

 

[Desert Fox]

Personally, and FWIW, I think of Brits as more reserved than yanks. On my recent visit across the pond, I was struck a couple of times by friendly conversations struck up among Americans who didn't know each other. The vibrator thing is different, though. Again, FWIW, I suspect this non-issue has been blown out of proportion by a prosecutor desperately looking for a motive and perhaps in the minds of the virgins by the operation of hindsight.

In the US, you do need to understand there is a wide variety of attitudes.
Find that in the South, they are more likely to pretend friendliness while backstabbing you.

 

[acbytesla]

Personally, and FWIW, I think of Brits as more reserved than yanks. On my recent visit across the pond, I was struck a couple of times by friendly conversations struck up among Americans who didn't know each other. The vibrator thing is different, though. Again, FWIW, I suspect this non-issue has been blown out of proportion by a prosecutor desperately looking for a motive and perhaps in the minds of the virgins by the operation of hindsight.

Well, I strike up conversations with people I don't know all the time actually Anglo, but my career for 30 years has been in sales and being able to make connections with people easily is really part of the job. I practice that constantly, so it's not awkward (I admit, it still feels awkward some of the time depending on the people)

Still, I'd bet college aged kids manage to "hook up" as they say just as easily at Leeds as they do at the University of Washington.

 

[lonepinealex]

I don't think there's much difference between the average Brit and American these days when it comes to social and sexual attitudes. I'm six years older than Amanda and I really don't find it at all likely that she would be so much more liberal than Meredith.

College-aged kids (and younger) definitely manage to hook up all the time, without any cultural baggage.



And yes, re: opera conversation, I do mean Gilbert & Sullivan...

 

[Desert Fox]

Well, I strike up conversations with people I don't know all the time actually Anglo, but my career for 30 years has been in sales and being able to make connections with people easily is really part of the job. I practice that constantly, so it's not awkward (I admit, it still feels awkward some of the time depending on the people)

Still, I'd bet college aged kids manage to "hook up" as they say just as easily at Leeds as they do at the University of Washington.

What are you kidding, they seem to manage to "hook up" at BYU as well, just less honest about it
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/08/14/byu_s_sex_ban_keli_byers_speaks_out_in_cosmo.html