Michael Brown Shooting

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Anyway, I'd be glad to hear Bikewer is all right.

I've never met him, but I've heard he's an OK guy.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Does anyone know if the details of the first one have been released yet?

Not that I'm aware of.

I wonder why a second one is requested.

Likely because the first doesn't fit their narrative. Or, at least, they have reason to believe it won't.

 

[Mike!]

Not that I'm aware of.



Likely because the first doesn't fit their narrative. Or, at least, they have reason to believe it won't.

I thought I heard on last nights news, that the family hasn't seen the body yet. I'd guess, if that's the case, it's still at the morgue.
Take that for what it's worth (In other words, not worth the pixels it's written in.)...

 

[Cylinder]

I thought I heard on last nights news, that the family hasn't seen the body yet. I'd guess, if that's the case, it's still at the morgue.
Take that for what it's worth (In other words, not worth the pixels it's written in.)...

I don't know if they viewed the body, but it was released to them.

 

[newyorkguy]

I'm...did someone just complain about the fact that a person of eighteen years of age is being described as a teen-ager?

Really?

I think that someone was complaining about using the term "teen-ager" to connote qualities like innocence, weakness, etc., that while applicable to most thirteen year-olds, don't appear to apply to Brown.

Really.

Object to the word teenager to describe someone who was eighteen because it connotes "qualities like innocence, weakness." That sounds irrational to me.

What I like is how some of the posters seem absolutely floored by even the possibility this could've been -- based on eyewitness accounts -- an unjustified killing. As though this has never happened before. As though there aren't former police officers sitting in prison right now serving sentences for murders they committed on duty. As though blacks don't have a history of being targeted for police violence. As though the Ferguson Police Department's bad reputation is irrelevant

They then compound their hypocrisy, after insisting there are no grounds to suspect the officer of misconduct, by insisting anyone who is skeptical remain silent and wait for the facts to come out.

Yeah sure.

 

[Mike!]

I don't know if they viewed the body, but it was released to them.

I guess both could be possible. Hard to believe someone from the family hadn't seen it yet though, if it'd been released to them. These are circumstances beyond my ability to even try to guess how I'd react to, were I in their shoes.

 

[casebro]

I don't know if they viewed the body, but it was released to them.

Simple matter for them to have their own people look it over. If there are no bullet entry wounds to the back, a whole lot of things change.

How will the anti-cops feel if all of those "eye witness" accounts are proven wrong by the absence of bullets in the back?

 

[newyorkguy]

It's almost like you're taking the position of a skeptic. On a skeptics forum. Advocating for the gathering of all the evidence before forming a conclusion.

Or his juvenile record is sealed.

It's entirely possible there are witnesses who corroborate the police version of events. However, in environment were "no snitching" (or something to that effect) is painted on the gas station...they may not be so eager to book an appearance on The View to tell their story.

Depending how the facts play out, it's almost irrelevant whether the officer knew they were robbers (although I suspect he did). What's relevant is that Brown knew he was a robber, and thought he was on his way to jail.

Except he wasn't.

Not that I'm aware of.
Likely because the first doesn't fit their narrative. Or, at least, they have reason to believe it won't.

This is why we (true skeptics, like me) wait for all the evidence to be gathered before forming conclusions.

Okay sure.

 

[casebro]

I guess both could be possible. Hard to believe someone from the family hadn't seen it yet though, if it'd been released to them. These are circumstances beyond my ability to even try to guess how I'd react to, were I in their shoes.

From watching the autopsies on NCIS, I don't think I would want to view my relative's body afterwards. Lots of digging around in there.

I bet they have him cremated ASAP, just to be able to forever be able to cast doubt on the validity of the autopsy.

 

[William Parcher]

How will the anti-cops feel if all of those "eye witness" accounts are proven wrong by the absence of bullets in the back?

Well they can still say that he shot at Brown's back but apparently missed.

Anyway the "second autopsy" is not so uncommon for controversial situations. There was a recent case of a student in Washington DC (I think) where the second autopsy determined that he was murdered when the first autopsy did not. The mother (I think) was the one who insisted on another autopsy and that would not have happened otherwise.

 

[casebro]

But then I bet some benevolent person will spring for the cost of a 2nd autopsy. Rev Al-type.

 

[William Parcher]

You might have some professional do it for free in this case.

 

[12AX7]

I bet they have him cremated ASAP, just to be able to forever be able to cast doubt on the validity of the autopsy.

Um...no.

Michael Brown Will Be Given Independent Autopsy, Attorney Says

Brown family's lawyer Anthony Gray tells TIME that noted forensic pathologist Michael Baden will examine remains of the teenager killed one week ago Saturday

Unless he plans to examine ashes.

 

[newyorkguy]

<snip> How will the anti-cops feel if all of those "eye witness" accounts are proven wrong by the absence of bullets in the back?

If you label anyone who is skeptical as to whether this shooting is justifiable or not as "anti-cop" you make any kind of rational or objective discussion pretty much impossible. In reality I think most intelligent people are waiting for the facts to come out while recognizing it is conceivable the eyewitness accounts are plausible. It is possible to hold those two viewpoints.

1. Wait for all the facts to come out.
2. Eyewitness accounts may be accurate.

 

[Mike!]

You might have some professional do it for free in this case.

Why not insist on the best autopsy money can buy?



ETA: Guess that's just what they're getting.

 

[marplots]

marplots didn't really write that post, right? It's such an egregious misreading of who the victim is in that store cam, it has to be a Poe.

I took it as a joke or parody of the extreme left. Don't tell me he/she actually believes that????

You'll are missing the nuance. Brown is being characterized as a violent felon, not because of any legal nuance, but because it's thought to directly expose some character trait. Once we put the label on, anything that happens afterward can fall into some recipe about getting what you deserve. It's an easy way to construct some narrative and fit subsequent events into our heads.

But the guy in the store is reacting to the situation he finds himself in. No aggression from the storekeeper, no "violent felon."

He pushes the guy away. Doesn't hit him, or attack him, pushes him away so he can get out of the door.

I've seen much, much worse in an average game of professional football. Might get someone a penalty, might not. If you are going to confront a shoplifter, I wouldn't say a push was entirely unexpected.

Bully, I would accept. "Violent felon" is recasting to an agenda.

 

[William Parcher]

From Wiki...

Michael M. Baden is a physician and board-certified forensic pathologist known for his work investigating high-profile deaths and as a host of HBO's Autopsy. He is also the Forensic Science Contributor for Fox News Channel. He has been the author or co-author of more than eighty professional articles and books on aspects of forensic medicine and also of two popular non-fiction books, Unnatural Death: Confessions of a Medical Examiner and Dead Reckoning: the New Science of Catching Killers. He and his wife have written the thriller Remains Silent.

Baden was the Chief Medical Examiner for the City of New York from 1978 to 1979.

He has been a consulting/lead pathologist and an expert witness on a number of high-profile cases and investigations including:

Chairman of the Forensic Pathology Panel of the House Select Committee on Assassinations that reinvestigated the John F. Kennedy assassination.

Giving testimony at the trial of O. J. Simpson.

Investigating the remains of Czar Nicholas II and family members.

Sid Vicious's death.

Claus von Bülow's criminal trial.

John Belushi's death.

Lisa McPherson's death.

As a defense witness in Phil Spector's murder trial. He was reportedly paid $250,000. Baden's wife was legal co-counsel for Spector at the time.

Richard Kuklinski's death.

Kathleen Savio's death.

Sergeant Evan Vela's court martial.

Gathering evidence against Byron De La Beckwith, who was facing his third trial for murder in the death of Medgar Evers. De La Beckwith was found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment.

I think that he and his wife were also involved in the Casey Anthony trial.

 

[William Parcher]

Why not insist on the best autopsy money can buy?

Some might propose that they insist on the best autopsy performer that can be bought.

 

[Cylinder]

Dr. Michael Baden was hired to do the private autopsy.

[ETA: Already answered. Carry on]

 

[William Parcher]

Baden and his wife were hired for the Casey Anthony defense.