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Michael Brown Shooting

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shuize said:
When I quoted this post earlier it all came out as a link, as it does here. Just out of curiosity, how do you get the video to play as part of your post?
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I edited the video down into a short portion, then converted it to a .gif then linked that .gif

.gif is an animated image, so not technically a video file (though effectively still a video)

ZRLVOv3.gif
 
Bikewer said:
So guys, wish me luck. I'm working our 6pm to 4am "detail" tonight... We are to be a 2-man car detailed to respond to Ferguson "if needed".
Our boys got called up there last night when the looting started. Me, I'm hoping for a nice, slow, steady rain.
The governor has declared a curfew... Unknown at this point what resources will be employed to enforce same. Personally, I would think a city-wide curfew would justify the activation of the NG.... But I'm not the governor.
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Bikewer, I'd be glad of news of you!
 
Kaosium said:
You sound awfully sure of that, what makes you so confident?

Although I came across this story which suggests McCulloch isn't the sort to get mau-maued which includes this:
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This seems to suggest there might be something problematic in Ferguson:

When stopped by police, blacks in Ferguson were twice as likely as whites to be arrested -- even though police found contraband for 34% of whites they stopped and searched, versus 22% of blacks -- said Scott Decker, a criminologist on a team contracted by the attorney general's office to compile the data.
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ETA: This gives the raw data

2013

Blacks |122 contraband |562 searches |4632 stops|
Whites |16 contraband |47 searches |686 stops|
 
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jimbob said:
This seems to suggest there might be something problematic in Ferguson:
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Does it go into what the contraband was? Whether the person had a warrant out on them? How the person or persons reacted to the officer, as in... cooperative or combative? These would all be very relevant.

Does a white guy who had an empty bong and a black guy who had a bag of crack and an illegal firearm both get marked down as "individuals stopped with contraband" ? I'd like to know that sort of detail.

If it turns out that my suspicions are wrong, and the cops are just being blatantly racist... well, I guess that would demonstrate that whites can't police blacks fairly. Which in turn would torpedo the notion that we can be a multiracial society and still function properly.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Does it go into what the contraband was? Whether the person had a warrant out on them? How the person or persons reacted to the officer, as in... cooperative or combative? These would all be very relevant.

Does a white guy who had an empty bong and a black guy who had a bag of crack and an illegal firearm both get marked down as "individuals stopped with contraband" ? I'd like to know that sort of detail.

If it turns out that my suspicions are wrong, and the cops are just being blatantly racist... well, I guess that would demonstrate that whites can't police blacks fairly. Which in turn would torpedo the notion that we can be a multiracial society and still function properly.
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What? When one one of your, frankly, racist theories is demolished, you create another one. Disgraceful.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
I edited the video down into a short portion, then converted it to a .gif then linked that .gif
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I see what I missed ... Thanks.

ZRLVOv3.gif



Yes, prosecutors would have loved the chance to show this to a judge. Strong-armed robbery with the return to intimidate the shopkeeper back into the store.
 
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Skeptic Tank said:
<snip>

If it turns out that my suspicions are wrong, and the cops are just being blatantly racist... well, I guess that would demonstrate that [those] whites can't police blacks fairly. Which in turn would torpedo the notion that we can be a multiracial society and still function properly.
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See the difference.

What it demonstrates is that there are still little fiefdoms where unrepentant bigots have managed to cling to power.

What it demonstrates is that the fight against racism is not finished.

Since there is abundant evidence that things have improved quite a bit since the pre-civil rights era your statement was only so much bull feces.

Just because we're not done yet doesn't mean we can't ever be.

And I expect that there will always be a few like you lurking in dark corners, spewing hatred and divisiveness, but at least you will be consistently despised by a growing majority.
 
If a grand jury returns a 'no bill', it is less likely to be called a white wash than if the white PTB refuse to prosecute. What is the racial mix of the current grand jury? Or are their IDs and descriptions held secret, like the proceedings?

It will also be a way of getting the legal process started, to get the crowds quieted down.
 
A grand jury is also better than the Zimmerman trial, where the prosecutor never felt there was evidence to convict, and the politcos took over and forced a trail. A 'no bill' by an integrated jury will prevent that.

I guess if I wanted to read anything into the calling of the grand jury it is that the evidence amounts to a lot of he-say-she-says, plus forensics that back up the officer's story. And maybe those bystanders who said in the back ground of the newscaster that they saw Brown charge.
 
Bikewer said:
This is why I generally hesitate to post in these threads other than in terms of broad general policies and legal realities.
All speculation.
None of the facts involving the shooting itself are in evidence. We have only statements by the purported witnesses. Witnesses can be mistaken or can simply lie. We can only go with the evidence uncovered by the investigation.

Disparate statements have been issued by the Ferguson chief. On one hand, he has said that the officer who shot Brown was not responding to the robbery and was not aware of the case; that he had been on another call.
That he confronted Brown and his partner only because they were "in the middle of the street blocking traffic."
Subsequently, he indicated that the officer may have seen Brown holding the box of cigars and had become aware of the robbery report.

Which is which? It will come out in the wash.

If....Brown was confronted by the officer having just committed a Robbery In The 2nd Degree (that's what a "strongarm" robbery is... A Class B felony) one might see how a simple "Don't block the road" request by the officer might have turned into a panicked reaction.
But that too would be sheer speculation at this point.

The family attorney has conceded that Brown had committed the robbery and that the evidence was recovered from his body.

None of those facts, by themselves, justify the shooting. That will be judged on the actions of both the police officer and Brown.
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Bizarre. It's almost like you're taking the position of a skeptic. On a skeptics forum. Advocating for the gathering of all the evidence before forming a conclusion. How odd. :cool:
 
casebro said:
I think that is there was anything that would defuse the situation they would make it public.

But the only actual facts they've given us is that the cop had a bruised head, and that Brown was a robber.

So I suspect the rest of their evidence could be inflammatory- first two rounds were appropriate, rest were not?

Or, lets say that all the evidence, plus other witnesses* that the Sheeple Today news doesn't even know about, all back up the cop? Would they not tell us, because they think it would feed the flames?

* those two in the background of the newscaster would have been tracked down. Remember, they were saying Brown charged the cop. You know Sheeple Today is on the same side as Reverend Al, they both want controversy for profit, not smooth waters.
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It's entirely possible there are witnesses who corroborate the police version of events. However, in environment were "no snitching" (or something to that effect) is painted on the gas station the "peaceful protestors" burned down, they may not be so eager to book an appearance on The View to tell their story.

This is why we (true skeptics, like me) wait for all the evidence to be gathered before forming conclusions.
 
pchams said:
I read half this post to date and I'm sorry if it has been brought up before, but has this scenario been raised?
The cop wasn't responding to the robbery.
He asked/told Brown and co. to move out of the road.
He got pissed with the non-compliance.
When he backed up, Brown and co. thought they'd been identified for the robbery therefore igniting a response to the cop that he wouldn't be prepared for?
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LTC8K6 said:
Yes, I have suggested something similar a few times, that Wilson figured out they were the robbers after he encountered them.

Plus, they must have been nervous having just robbed a place and with Johnson having a warrant.
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Depending how the facts play out, it's almost irrelevant whether the officer knew they were robbers (although I suspect he did). What's relevant is that Brown knew he was a robber, and thought he was on his way to jail.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
It's entirely possible there are witnesses who corroborate the police version of events. However, in environment were "no snitching" (or something to that effect) is painted on the gas station the "peaceful protestors" burned down, they may not be so eager to book an appearance on The View to tell their story.

This is why we (true skeptics, like me) wait for all the evidence to be gathered before forming conclusions.
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Either the community is coming together to support lawlessness, or their message is getting lost in the image of bandanna-faced teens throwing gang signs.

We need an MLK, who gave an incredibly powerful voice to black issues while not leaving out other minorities and poor whites too, someone who isn't by nature divisive.
 
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