Michael Brown Shooting

[dudalb]

GOd, the news conference is a total Cluster......
Governor and the Officer in charge are being shouted down.and a businessman and a No Justice No Peace type were almost coming to blows.

This is not getting better, folks.

 

[Brainster]

Governor's news conference has turned really ugly.

Hate to say it, but some of the No Justice,No peace types are making themselves look really, really, bad.

Aren't they more or less bad by definition? Essentially they are saying, "Unless we get the result we want from the legal system, we're going to riot."

 

[newyorkguy]

What's completely missing from this thread is context. The outrage this incident has sparked -- even a conservative like Sen. Rand Paul has questioned the police conduct -- is not because of this one incident. It's because there have been literally hundreds of these incidents over the years. Unarmed minority men -- usually black -- shot and killed by police in circumstances that at best seem questionable. The U.S. Dept. of Justice doesn't even bother to tabulate how many people are killed by police officers -- and I find that disturbing -- but it's estimated to be somewhere between 500-1000 per year.

Previous attempts to analyze racial bias in police shootings have arrived at similar conclusions. In 2007, ColorLines and the Chicago Reporter investigated fatal police shootings in 10 major cities, and found that there were a disproportionately high number of African Americans among police shooting victims in every one, particularly in New York, San Diego, and Las Vegas. Link

The FBI attempted a study on police killings but shamefully only 750 agencies out of 15,000 contributed to the study

At least one person is killed every day by a U.S. police officer, a new report says. On average, local police forces kill 400 people every year in the Unites States, according to a seven-year FBI study. In 2012, cops were responsible for 410 deaths. All but one was with a firearm. About a fourth of those annual incidents — about 96 a year, or two every week — involve a white officer and a black victim, USA Today reported.Link

 

[Unabogie]

Wow. Don't let those inconvenient facts confuse the narrative.

"Officer, I realize I was driving 100 mph in a 65 mph zone, but I was in a hurry. I'm sure it's technically speeding, but whatever".

I'm not disputing the facts. I'm criticizing the use of "strong armed robbery" to describe a kid grabbing cigarellos from a store, even if he pushed his way out and acted like a punk when he got caught. I completely agree this was a crime, and I also agree that it contradicts depiction of him as a "gentle giant". But it's a strained use of the word "robbery". It's something that I would have called "shoplifting". The phrasing seems designed to sway public opinion (judging by the timing of the release) and a way to smear the victim.

By the way, I thought shoving people wasn't inherently violent, judging by the reaction to Zimmerman pushing a DEA officer. That was considered completely mild and not in any way proof of being a "thug".

I'm so confused about the rules here.

 

[Unabogie]

Do we know for a fact that Brown's hands were up in the air or is that just a figment a witness's imagination?

There are three witnesses who all saw the same thing. Are you saying they're all lying and it's a giant conspiracy?

 

[dudalb]

Aren't they more or less bad by definition? Essentially they are saying, "Unless we get the result we want from the legal system, we're going to riot."

It called a "Lynch Mob Atmosphere" . Which is what I saw in the news conference.
People defending the Mob Atmosphere coming in 3...2..1...

And guaranteed, a few idiots will show up with guns claimed to be a "miltia to maintain order because the (N Word) controlled police cannot".

 

[stanfr]

I'm not disputing the facts. I'm criticizing the use of "strong armed robbery" to describe a kid grabbing cigarellos from a store, even if he pushed his way out and acted like a punk when he got caught. I completely agree this was a crime, and I also agree that it contradicts depiction of him as a "gentle giant". But it's a strained use of the word "robbery". It's something that I would have called "shoplifting". The phrasing seems designed to sway public opinion (judging by the timing of the release) and a way to smear the victim.

By the way, I thought shoving people wasn't inherently violent, judging by the reaction to Zimmerman pushing a DEA officer. That was considered completely mild and not in any way proof of being a "thug".

I'm so confused about the rules here.

It's not confusing, "robbery" is simply theft with the use of force or intimidation. That's the definition. If you don't like it, speak to the dictionary folks and see if you can change it...

 

[Azrael 5]

I haven't seen any witness reports claiming Brown was on his knees. But three witnesses - including Brown's friend and two independent witnesses - claim the officer shot Brown in the back and/or while he was in the act of surrendering with his hands in the air from some 20 feet away.

Two links here,first alludes to what I wrote(in pictures-though I saw video of same thing),second an interview with his cousin who claims Michael was "meek gentle giant who'd run from fear" lol

http://fox4kc.com/2014/08/15/live-from-ferguson-michael-browns-family-expected-to-speak/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28798473

 

[Giz]

What's completely missing from this thread is context. The outrage this incident has sparked -- even a conservative like Sen. Rand Paul has questioned the police conduct -- is not because of this one incident. It's because there have been literally hundreds of these incidents over the years. Unarmed minority men -- usually black -- shot and killed by police in circumstances that at best seem questionable.

Ehh, the graphs in the Mother Jones article seem to indicate that while the deaths are disproportionate to the population as a whole, they are not disproportionate when compared to offenders.

 

[Caper]

What's completely missing from this thread is context. The outrage this incident has sparked -- even a conservative like Sen. Rand Paul has questioned the police conduct --

What? Even a conservative like Rand Paul? Do you realize what type of conservative Rand Paul is?

 

[Bikewer]

It's not confusing, "robbery" is simply theft with the use of force or intimidation. That's the definition. If you don't like it, speak to the dictionary folks and see if you can change it...

This is exactly the case. We have in fact prosecuted people for Robbery 2nd on exactly such circumstances.
In one case, the owner of a laptop walked in on a young man who was in the process of stealing same... She grabbed for the computer (not a wise move...) and a brief struggle ensued.
The individual was charged with and convicted for "strongarm robbery".

The use of any force whatever, even pushing someone out of the way in order to flee, raises the ante from mere theft to robbery.

 

[Bikewer]

So guys, wish me luck. I'm working our 6pm to 4am "detail" tonight... We are to be a 2-man car detailed to respond to Ferguson "if needed".
Our boys got called up there last night when the looting started. Me, I'm hoping for a nice, slow, steady rain.
The governor has declared a curfew... Unknown at this point what resources will be employed to enforce same. Personally, I would think a city-wide curfew would justify the activation of the NG.... But I'm not the governor.

 

[Mike!]

So guys, wish me luck. I'm working our 6pm to 4am "detail" tonight... We are to be a 2-man car detailed to respond to Ferguson "if needed".
Our boys got called up there last night when the looting started. Me, I'm hoping for a nice, slow, steady rain.
The governor has declared a curfew... Unknown at this point what resources will be employed to enforce same. Personally, I would think a city-wide curfew would justify the activation of the NG.... But I'm not the governor.

Good luck dude, but I hope you don't need it too.

 

[Unabogie]

So guys, wish me luck. I'm working our 6pm to 4am "detail" tonight... We are to be a 2-man car detailed to respond to Ferguson "if needed".
Our boys got called up there last night when the looting started. Me, I'm hoping for a nice, slow, steady rain.
The governor has declared a curfew... Unknown at this point what resources will be employed to enforce same. Personally, I would think a city-wide curfew would justify the activation of the NG.... But I'm not the governor.

Best of luck, and stay safe!

 

[newyorkguy]

<snip> We have in fact prosecuted people for Robbery 2nd on exactly such circumstances....the owner of a laptop walked in on a young man who was in the process of stealing same...a brief struggle ensued.The use of any force whatever, even pushing someone out of the way in order to flee, raises the ante from mere theft to robbery.

If you were a prosecutor presented with a case where a kid tried to walk out of a convenience store with a handful of cigars and shoved the storekeeper you'd be looking to charge them with a felony and asking for a multi-year prison sentence? For a nineteen-year-old. And presumably a nineteen-year-old with no priors because if he'd had prior criminal convictions I'm sure we would have heard chapter and verse about them by now.

 

[Cain]

Same ol, same ol.

If I close my eyes, it feels like nothing has changed at all. It feels like I've been here before. It's like the walls keep crumbling down in the city that we love. How am I gonna be an optimist about this?

 

[Brainster]

Ehh, the graphs in the Mother Jones article seem to indicate that while the deaths are disproportionate to the population as a whole, they are not disproportionate when compared to offenders.

Yeah, that was my takeaway too. I was particularly struck by the graphs showing gunfire in NYC by race in 2011. There were 12 people who shot at cops in NYC and 8 were Black and 4 Hispanic. None were white. But when you look at who the cops fired at, about 50% were Black, 40% Hispanic, and 10% White. And when you look at who were hit by bullets fired by cops, about 40% were Black, 40% Hispanic and 20% White. I guess another conclusion you could reach is that Blacks were much better at eluding gunfire than Whites.

 

[Giz]

So guys, wish me luck. I'm working our 6pm to 4am "detail" tonight... We are to be a 2-man car detailed to respond to Ferguson "if needed".
Our boys got called up there last night when the looting started. Me, I'm hoping for a nice, slow, steady rain.

Good luck man, fingers crossed for rain.

 

[Bikewer]

If you were a prosecutor presented with a case where a kid tried to walk out of a convenience store with a handful of cigars and shoved the storekeeper you'd be looking to charge them with a felony and asking for a multi-year prison sentence? For a nineteen-year-old. And presumably a nineteen-year-old with no priors because if he'd had prior criminal convictions I'm sure we would have heard chapter and verse about them by now.

I but present the "letter of the law". We don't make these decisions, prosecutors do. In the case I mentioned, I believe the perpetrator was 20, had priors, and was sentenced to 6 years.

Mitigating factors are always presented at trial... Sentencing is up to the judge... In some cases. In many drug-related crimes, not so. "Federally-mandated minimum sentences" may apply.

 

[Caper]

If you were a prosecutor presented with a case where a kid tried to walk out of a convenience store with a handful of cigars and shoved the storekeeper you'd be looking to charge them with a felony and asking for a multi-year prison sentence? For a nineteen-year-old. And presumably a nineteen-year-old with no priors because if he'd had prior criminal convictions I'm sure we would have heard chapter and verse about them by now.

Wasn't he on his way back from a volunteer shift at the orphanage?