Michael Brown Shooting

[johnny karate]

I don't relish slogging through all the posts but I seem to recall reading eyewitness stories like...

He was shot in the back while running away.

He was shot while surrendering with his arms up (and kneeling).

He was shot in the head and dropped to the pavement afterwards Wilson started shooting him in the back.

There may be other variations and I could be wrong about these that I seem to recall.

Yes, if there was only some resource we could utilize to compare the actual facts to our recollection of them... Some kind of interconnected computer network...

 

[johnny karate]

At the minimum you speculate that you can't tell anything from the photo. You also speculate that Johnson was watching which is more than just being there. You speculate that Johnson's story is better than Wilson's friend but you don't really know that. Wilson's friend might have the truly accurate account but you can only speculate otherwise because you don't know.

I'm starting to doubt you actually know what "speculate" even means.

Hearsay is not a guarantee of inaccuracy.

Hearsay is worthless. Cling to it all you want, but it's still worthless.

 

[newyorkguy]

I never said the person in the store video and the person lying in the street weren't the same person. I agreed they might well be. I'm a little cautious because I've seen too many low res photos that purported to show something that later turned out to be wrong. I said I thought we should be a little cautious about making conclusions. To attack that statement as being "truther logic," IMO, is idiotic. Now for someone to lie about my statement and say I stated the person shown in the video and the news photo WASN'T the same person that seems pretty idiotic too.

Here's my truther logic statement.

<snip> I agree the assailant in the store video looked like the same man lying dead in the street in the news photo. But it could've been different people. The photos aren't conclusive.

 

[William Parcher]

Yes, if there was only some resource we could utilize to compare the actual facts to our recollection of them... Some kind of interconnected computer network...

You seem to recall the witnesses agreeing so you must have that factual statement analysis that you asked me for. Right?

 

[Kaosium]

I was wondering about that, too. The short answer would be it requires a lot of samples and a lot of different tests...

How are forensic toxicology tests done?

At the time of the autopsy, collection of blood, urine, and tissue samples is done in preparation for the toxicology tests, says Barbarajean Magnani, PhD, MD, chairwoman of the Toxicology Resource committee for the College of American Pathologists. She is also vice-chair of the department of pathology and laboratory medicine at Tufts Medical Center, Boston.

"We collect blood from different areas, such as the femoral vein [in the leg] and heart blood," she tells WebMD. That's because the concentration of drugs can be different, she says, so comparing the concentrations can boost accuracy.

''We collect urine if there is any [in the body] and also use tissues [to test],” Magnani says.

Specimens taken for forensic toxicology testing routinely include, in addition to blood and urine, tissue samples from the liver, brain, kidney, and vitreous humor (the clear ''jelly" found in the eyeball chamber), according to information from the College of American Pathologists. Samples of the stomach contents and bile, a digestive juice secreted by the liver, are also collected routinely.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/features/the-truth-about-toxicology-tests

Thank you for doing my googling for me!

 

[William Parcher]

I'm starting to doubt you actually know what "speculate" even means. Hearsay is worthless. Cling to it all you want, but it's still worthless.

I'm not relying on Wilson's friend's story. I've been working with the eyewitness stories all along. I was the one who said that witnesses could have been correct that Wilson shot Brown from behind (the back) but that he may have missed until Brown turned around to face him.

Hearsay is automatically thrown out in courts but that doesn't mean it is automatically inaccurate. It's not even tested for accuracy.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

The Amount of Confirmation Bias, Ignoring of evidence and facts if it clashes with my ideology, out and out racism,and general lack of rational thinking on both sides of this debate make me understand why the JREF is washing it's hands of this forum,

It's not that, but as good a reason as any. Randi should be embarrassed by it.

 

[Mike!]

I thought the doctrine was to do CPR if no detectable heartbeat until told otherwise by paramedics?

Generally speaking, a bullet directly to the forehead renders that option pointless at best.

 

[dudalb]

I have started a new thread to discuss the disturbances ( a word I carefully chose) in Ferguson, because this thread has become so totally dominated by the discussion of the evidence that a lot of the more serious implications of this issue are simply not being discussed.

 

[LTC8K6]

Johnson is wanted for a 2011 theft case.

http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/ferguson-shooting-witness-wanted-in-2011-case/#Kil4OmYWIlfAwWsX.99

 

[johnny karate]

You seem to recall the witnesses agreeing so you must have that factual statement analysis that you asked me for. Right?

Dorian Johnson:

I saw the officer proceeding after my friend Big Mike with his gun drawn, and he fired a second shot and that struck my friend Big Mike. And at that time, he turned around with his hands up, beginning to tell the officer that he was unarmed and to tell him to stop shooting. But at that time, the officer firing several more shots into my friend, and he hit the ground and died.

Piaget Crenshaw:

They shot him and he fell. He put his arms up to let them know that he was compliant and he was unarmed, and they shot him twice more and he fell to the ground and died.

Tiffany Mitchell:

After the shot, the kid just breaks away. The cop follows him, kept shooting, the kid’s body jerked as if he was hit. After his body jerked he turns around, puts his hands up, and the cop continues to walk up on him and continues to shoot until he goes all the way down.

All three witnesses describe the officer shooting Brown, Brown putting his hands up in surrender, and then the officer shooting more times until Brown goes down.

Your turn.

 

[johnny karate]

I'm not relying on Wilson's friend's story. I've been working with the eyewitness stories all along. I was the one who said that witnesses could have been correct that Wilson shot Brown from behind (the back) but that he may have missed until Brown turned around to face him.

Hearsay is automatically thrown out in courts but that doesn't mean it is automatically inaccurate. It's not even tested for accuracy.

Hearsay should not be relied upon or even considered. It should be immediately dismissed because it is unreliable by its very nature.

Quite frankly, I'm embarrassed for anyone who brings it into a skeptic's forum and tries to introduce it into the body of evidence.

 

[LTC8K6]

I thought the doctrine was to do CPR if no detectable heartbeat until told otherwise by paramedics?

I haven't heard that. You could be right.

 

[Unabogie]

There is a social justice warrior feel to many of these posts.

I really, really despise this term. There's nothing bad about justice. And anyone who is opposed to the idea of justice, even if they term it "social justice" is flat out rotten. You're better than this.

 

[dudalb]

Is riot gear somehow inappropriate when dealing with a riot?

Riot gear is OK,but the kind of heavy weaponry on used by the Ferguson police department is not..and most law enforcement officals interviewed have said so.

 

[Unabogie]

Generally speaking, a bullet directly to the forehead renders that option pointless at best.

Gabby Giffords begs to differ.

 

[Unabogie]

Johnson is wanted for a 2011 theft case.

http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/ferguson-shooting-witness-wanted-in-2011-case/#Kil4OmYWIlfAwWsX.99

So he has an outstanding warrant but police have repeatedly said he's not going to be arrested for anything and they haven't taken him in, and in fact, have avoided even talking to him?

I know the Ferguson PD is inept, but what the hell is going on in that town?

P.S., they say that Johnson "claims" to have witnessed the shooting, but is there any doubt about this, at all, or is WND just taking the position that every witness to the shooting must be disbelieved?

 

[LTC8K6]

The nurse may have walked up well after the shooting for all we know.

The twitterers said the body was left there for a long time.

The nurse may have come up after the paramedics had been there.

When the police checked him initially, he may have still had a pulse and still been breathing. Since an ambulance was already nearby, CPR was not needed at that time.

 

[LTC8K6]

So he has an outstanding warrant but police have repeatedly said he's not going to be arrested for anything and they haven't taken him in, and in fact, have avoided even talking to him?

I know the Ferguson PD is inept, but what the hell is going on in that town?

P.S., they say that Johnson "claims" to have witnessed the shooting, but is there any doubt about this, at all, or is WND just taking the position that every witness to the shooting must be disbelieved?

The warrant specified a distance, and Johnson kept outside that distance.

But Schaffer said there is an order for Johnson’s extradition if he is arrested within a 50-mile radius of Jefferson City. Ferguson, a St. Louis suburb, is more than 100 miles from Jefferson City.

He still has a theft warrant, though.

 

[LTC8K6]

So we have two guys who robbed a store, one of whom has a warrant already, and a cop pulls up to them, just after the robbery. Then the cop backs up to them again.

How do they react?