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Michael Brown Shooting

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Redtail said:
K... Does that mean it can be ignored?
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Under the law, probably mostly yes.

Rioting is generally frowned upon in the law and the police have more leeway during riots.

Specific cases with good evidence of illegal behavior certainly shouldn't be ignored.

But anyway, I just meant that a lot of blame is being heaped on Ferguson PD about the rioting reactions, when Ferguson PD only has 54 sworn officers.

I would think few Ferguson officers were on riot duty.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
I suspect your questions will be answered in the coming weeks and months. Unlike some "skeptics", I'm willing to wait.
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I am with you.

I'll withhold judgment on many things to do with this event until the court case can bring them to light.

As information is becoming available, it seems possible that Wilson's stopping of Brown was not "profiling" but a legitimate police action based on probable cause of matching the description from a complaint. It also seems possible that the incident was escalated by Brown's attacking the Wilson. While this certainly does not seem to be justification for shooting a fleeing suspect in the back, it is a part of a whole chain of events that needs to be considered.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Yea, in my opinion any person with a functioning brain and even the slightest control over their emotions and/or racial loyalties should have known from the start that the greatest likelihood was that if an officer shot someone, there was good reason for it.

Shooting someone dead is not treated lightly by police departments, and as a white officer... shooting a black suspect is the kind of thing which can bring down exactly this sort of nonsense on your head (though typically not this widespread or intense.)

In other words, very few cops (if any) are going to decide it's worth murdering someone and all that that will do to their life and career, because that person didn't get off the street and onto the sidewalk as promptly, or respond as respectfully, as the officer would've liked.

I think just about the entire media, who should've learned from their buffoonery on Trayvon, should be deeply ashamed on this case. Likewise for a vast number of posters on this forum and across the internet.

Who actually believes there are tons of racist white cops across the country just going around flat out murdering young black men for no reason? That's a fairy tale. I expect that sort of conspiracy theory stupidity from people who lived three houses down from Brown... to see it from educated posters online, is truly depressing.
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Don't assume the officer is white.
 
Pooneil said:
I am with you.

I'll withhold judgment on many things to do with this event until the court case can bring them to light.

As information is becoming available, it seems possible that Wilson's stopping of Brown was not "profiling" but a legitimate police action based on probable cause of matching the description from a complaint. It also seems possible that the incident was escalated by Brown's attacking the Wilson. While this certainly does not seem to be justification for shooting a fleeing suspect in the back, it is a part of a whole chain of events that needs to be considered.
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Firstly, I sincerely doubt that's what happened.

Secondly, even if it is I disagree that it isn't a justification for that.

If someone has already committed felony robbery and assault and battery and attempted murder on a police officer in the space of an hour, letting that person escape into the general populace at that point would be highly irresponsible of the officer.

What would his fellow officers think of him if, 30 minutes later, Brown emerged nearby and got the drop on another officer, killing him, then took his squad car and led the PD on an hour long chase around the area, which ended with him crashing into a car full of innocent civilians?

Sound far fetched? Stuff like that happens, and the fact is... a police officer has a duty to take down someone who has shown that level of willingness to do violence and ignore the law. Trying to murder a police officer is exceptionally serious and indicates a willingness to really do pretty much anything.

Time to die, at that point.
 
Is Johnson vulnerable to be taken in as a material witness or accomplice to the robbery, or more?
 
LTC8K6 said:
Under the law, probably mostly yes.

Rioting is generally frowned upon in the law and the police have more leeway during riots.

Specific cases with good evidence of illegal behavior certainly shouldn't be ignored.

But anyway, I just meant that a lot of blame is being heaped on Ferguson PD about the rioting reactions, when Ferguson PD only has 54 sworn officers.

I would think few Ferguson officers were on riot duty.
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Right.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
But the sentence for being a punk ass kid assaulting an officer and (perhaps) trying to grab his gun CAN BE death.

You probably just forgot to mention that part.
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A casing was found inside the vehicle. There were 'more than a few' outside the vehicle. There were 'more than a couple' in Michael Brown and he was 35' away from the vehicle. As I understand it those facts are not in dispute.
 
William Parcher said:
Shoplifting is different than what happened. When you grab and rough the intervening shopkeeper in the act of shoplifting you become a robber.
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I am not a lawyer, but every commentor I have heard have said if Brown did manhandle the clerk in the course of stealing the Cigars,that makes it a strong arm robbery instead of shoplifting,and boost it from a misdeameanor into a felony.


Frankly, this thread has become an excellent example of why this section and the two politics sections richly deserve their reputation at JREF as being where reason and rational thinking go to die.

And proof that political ideology can be just as bad as religon when it comes to making people reject facts when it does not fit in with their beliefs.
 
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Skeptic Tank said:
And thank goodness for that.

How many keystrokes and megabytes and minutes of footage on news stations do you think would've been dedicated to the story where Brown got the officer's gun and killed him with it?

One one billionth of what is being generated by the current story? If that?

I would *much* rather have Brown end up dead than the officer. Good outcome, IMO.
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What about the evidence you've heard suggests it was necessary for anyone to die?
 
Edited to remove breach. Please remember your Membership Agreememt, be civil, and address the argument rather than attacking the arguer.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL
 
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dudalb said:
political ideology can be just as bad as religon when it comes to making people reject facts when it does not fit in with their beliefs.
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Yep, and the intersection of political ideology and white guilt is a particularly potent force for utterly laying waste to anything resembling rationality, logic or a sober assessment of the facts.

There are a lot of people in our society today, and a depressing number of them work for major media, who believe that they MUST side with a non-white person in essentially any conflict or dispute, or murky situation... or else they'd be racist. And since "racist" is the worst thing they could possibly be... logic goes out the window and their default position becomes "white person bad, non-white person good" and the hill of evidence that has to pile up to get them to reassess is massive, and in many cases can never be achieved.
 
dudalb said:
I am not a lawyer, but every commentor I have heard have said if Brown did manhandle the clerk in the course of stealing the Cigars,that makes it a strong arm robbery instead of shoplifting,and boost it into a misdeameanor into a felony.


Frankly, this thread has become an excellent example of why this section and the two politics sections richly deserve their reputation at JREF as being where reason and rational thinking go to die.

And proof that political ideology can be just as bad as religon when it comes to making people reject facts when it does not fit in with their beliefs.
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This.
 
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