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Continuation Part 10: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Based just on the specific questions you asked, V&L's answers were more detailed than they could have been respective to Knox's case. It still seems like cherrypicking, unless your very first question was, "Is DNA profiling not a confirmatory test for blood, and if so, why not? The only reason that I can think of is that one might detect DNA from any tissue?"

Just reprint the entire email exhange from the banal hello's to the questions to the ansers to the thanks for everythings. Without reading that, I don't see how anyone could take your characterizations of their feelings seriously.

Are you saying that Chris is lying to you Griffin? This is an exchange he had a very long time ago and I'm sure his answer is the same he provided then. This is complete. The fact that you don't believe him is your issue not Chris's.
 
As someone here has been saying for years the TMB test being negative doesn't mean that the footprints weren't left in very diluted blood. The blood at the 1:1,000,000 ratio could have been left there months or even longer. Since the footprints don't match Amanda, they are only compatible, and DNA can't be dated, the prints are of very little value. In that the substance wasn't determined to be blood with any confirming test nor was the substance positively tested for MK's DNA it is not precise.

[Such a circumstance] acquires probative value only when multiple pieces of evidence can all be traced to a single cause or a single effect. In applying this, therefore, the judge must first examine each item of evidence [indizio], identifying all its possible logical connections, then ascertaining their gravity, which is inversely proportional to the number of such connections, as well as the precision, which is correlated to the sharpness of [the item's] contours, the clarity of its representation, to the direct or indirect source of knowledge from which it derives, [and thus] to its reliability. [The judge] must, finally, proceed to the final synthesis, ascertaining whether the items under examination are consistent [concordanti], i.e. whether they can be linked to a single cause or a single effect, so that the existence or nonexistence of the fact to be proved can be inferred.​

Glad it has been settled that TMB is not as sensitive as Luminol.

I don't think the latter was ever in contention. :confused:

How much it matters is another thing. Some of these tests are ineffective at dilutions lower than 1,000:1, the LMG test is one if I recall correctly off the top of my head. It still is in use worldwide, because the sensitivity doesn't actually matter that much.

What I want to know is why everyone (including me!) falls for this misdirection every single time!

Why did they hide the TMB tests and lie about it in court?
 
Are you saying that Chris is lying to you Griffin? This is an exchange he had a very long time ago and I'm sure his answer is the same he provided then. This is complete. The fact that you don't believe him is your issue not Chris's.

Why would you not want to see the full V&L transcript? You haven't seen it. Do you just assume it says what you want it to say?
 
I think this is something you believe in very strongly.

How can anyone claim to be interested in anything more than what Dr. Halkides has posted regarding his correspondence with those two forensic experts when they're not interested in why <Dr. Stefanoni hid the results of the TMB tests and lied about it in court?
 
For the simple reason that every interview should be recorded in its full context. It's bizarre you would ask if you are truly a lawyer.

At the very least, it should be as comprehensive as the Balding interview to take seriously. Do you disagree?

You mean like someone suspected of committing a murder?
 
Why would you not want to see the full V&L transcript? You haven't seen it. Do you just assume it says what you want it to say?

If you go back three years you will find me stating that three things that could cause a (false) TMB negative were dilution, age and reduction agents. I had never seen what Chris Halkides just revealed until today regarding the rest of his e-mail correspondence, I simply found that information in a number of other papers on the subject.

Now answer the question:

What do you think of Stefanoni hiding the TMB negatives and then lying about it in court?
 
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How can anyone claim to be interested in anything more than what Dr. Halkides has posted regarding his correspondence with those two forensic experts when they're not interested in why <Dr. Stefanoni hid the results of the TMB tests and lied about it in court?

Nothing to do with what I asked, and you're obviously trying to distort this.

As I have said in the past, I fully expect that V&L will back Halkides when the interview is revealed.

I just want to read that interview with my own eyes.

I don't know why this is so threatening.
 
You mean like someone suspected of committing a murder?

Whether AK should have been recorded in her interviews is one subject that can be debated.

But Halkides openly recorded interviews with his subjects. And he purports they said certain things.

So I don't think it's asking for much that he report the full context of those interviews if he is going to quote from it.
 
reducing agents

This is nice, even a step forward. The bit about TMB being falsely negative in the presence of dilution and other factors is interesting, as is the information about false positives of luminol.
griffinmill,

I am sorry to have to say it, but your comment reflects ignorance of the subject we are discussing. For example, the interference by reducing agents has been discussed in these threads with an appropriate reference to the literature, probably more than once. No one here can do your homework for you.
 
Nothing to do with what I asked, and you're obviously trying to distort this.

As I have said in the past, I fully expect that V&L will back Halkides when the interview is revealed.

I just want to read that interview with my own eyes.

I don't know why this is so threatening.

It has everything to do with what you asked. You're proceeding on the assumption that there's more to that correspondence than Chris Halkides posted yet you've no interest in why Stefanoni hid the results of the TMB tests and lied about it in court.

How can anyone take that kind of 'curiosity' seriously?
 
griffinmill,

I am sorry to have to say it, but your comment reflects ignorance of the subject we are discussing. For example, the interference by reducing agents has been discussed in these threads with an appropriate reference to the literature, probably more than once. No one here can do your homework for you.

Right. Still waiting for the V&L transcript.
 
You're not ansering the question.

And no, Halkides has obviously not released the full interview.

Trust me when I say that we have no more trust in you than you do us. As is so often the case with your confreres, the difference is that Chris_Halkides is the one in the exchange between the two of you who is an actual scientist and has proved his bona fides.
 
Seneca

You're not ansering the question.

And no, Halkides has obviously not released the full interview.
griffinmill,

I asked Dr. Lednev two question (see previous page for what they were verbatim), and he provided the two answers I quoted. The answers are not a surprise to anyone who reads up on these matters, but I appreciate how uncomfortable this information makes PG commenters feel. “It's not hard to find the truth. What is hard is not to run away from it once you have found it.” link
 
I don't think the latter was ever in contention. :confused:

Oh yes it was. Debates over what sensitive meant in the context, that TMB measured a totally different thing in blood (which it well might) and that TMB was the best test.


Why did they hide the TMB tests and lie about it in court?

They would lie because the test either eliminates the blood or makes it so diluted that it doesn't fit any of the many prosecution scenarios.
 
It has everything to do with what you asked. You're proceeding on the assumption that there's more to that correspondence than Chris Halkides posted yet you've no interest in why Stefanoni hid the results of the TMB tests and lied about it in court.

How can anyone take that kind of 'curiosity' seriously?

Stefanoni is a topic YOU are trying to bring up. I NEVER brought it up. You are also not responding to any question I asked, but desperately trying to make Stefanoni the ONLY topic.

I find it conspicuous that you are not talking about why Halkides won't simply produce the full transcript of his conversation, even when he already lied and said he did.

I just want to talk about this issue. And I look forward to the full transcript I hope Halkides will provide.
 
I think this is something you believe in very strongly.

And it is a belief based on data - and its absence - and a careful reading of the court transcripts. Your needling of Chris_Halkides is less balanced, and considerably less useful, and reminds me of the work of a fellow who used to go around these parts calling himself Fulcanelli.
 
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