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Future of the Forum

Darat said:
Not by icerat nor me. Everything we know is out in the open. Obviously can't speak about the JREF.

The focus at the moment is

1) getting the forum onto better hardware to stabilize the current forum before it goes tits-up.
2) getting setup for a formal handover, this is still very nebulous as it depends on what the JREF decides at the end of the extended period they have for consultation.
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That just tells us the technical aspects of the transfer. Once the move to new hardware is made, will JREF retain ownership of the database, code, and membership list? If not, who will own the information that basically constitutes the forum?
 
Darat said:
Clarification of my role if the plan icerat has given the JREF goes ahead. I have committed to staying on for the transitional period, helping with any technical and administration issues, once the new structure and organisation is created I'll then make a decision as to level of my involvement. I don't feel I can give any more commitment at this point, and of course the new organisation may not want my continued involvement so it would be a tad egocentric to assume I would remain involved in the management of the new place.
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My view's long been that term limits (and accordingly, succession plans) are a better practice than what the forum's had, so in line with that and nothing personal I'd advocate you not staying beyond a transition stage, since your tenure has already far outlasted any term limit I think would be arrived at.

Would not apply just to yourself. (And to bring in something like that abruptly without adequate succession planning might not work. But it could with a target date in mind)
 
Hokulele said:
That just tells us the technical aspects of the transfer. Once the move to new hardware is made, will JREF retain ownership of the database, code, and membership list? If not, who will own the information that basically constitutes the forum?
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Until the JREF makes their decision none of these questions can be answered.

ETA as per previous posts the first stage of the transition still has the JREF in total control.
 
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Francesca R said:
All volunteer mods/admins are appointed by the JREF. They are there at the JREF's behest. A few days ago a demonstration was provided that this is the case when the forum was disconnected and then the functionality of mods/admins was temporarily curtailed. The JREF is (still) the accountable entity for all forum management actions.

No idea why you want to contest this. As above, it is the reason why I believe that lifting all disciplinary legacy is the most ethical policy if ownership transfers. (And particularly if content does not transfer with it).

Reasonable people can disagree with whether that is the ethical option of course.
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This is incorrect. Mods are selected from among the current list of volunteers; the ultimate decision as to whether a volunteer would be given mod powers was Darat's, without input from JREF.

So again -- the vast majority of bannings were because of a mod team that was essentially independent of the JREF; while I can't speak as a mod, I'm pretty confident that the mod team would agree that there were very few bannings where the mod team thought the person shouldn't be banned, but rules put in place by the JREF forced them to ban that person.
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Quarky is the only one that comes to mind. He just couldn't stay away from the smut, even though he knew it was a no-go area. There was less enthusiasm for banning him than I've seen for anyone else in my nearly four years as a mod, but in the end we had to do it if the rules were going to mean anything.
 
I can think of two separate things that get you immediately banned without discussion or warning.

- Advocating suicide
- Threatening legal action
 
jhunter1163 said:
Mods are selected from among the current list of volunteers; the ultimate decision as to whether a volunteer would be given mod powers was Darat's, without input from JREF.
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I know. That doesn't change the reality of the situation that ultimately it is the JREF that gives all of the team their functional powers, and the JREF who (as has been shown and as Darat has mentioned many times over the years) can take them away at any time.
 
Darat said:
Until the JREF makes their decision none of these questions can be answered.

ETA as per previous posts the first stage of the transition still has the JREF in total control.
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But that's sorta the point.

Yeah it's great that you and others are so open with what you know but by your own admission... you're in the dark mostly.

So have two sides those who are willing to be open and honest with us but don't really have that much light to shed on everything and those who have all the answers but aren't telling us crap.

It's great, and I mean that all sincerity believe it or not, that everyone is making all these plans and throwing out ideas for some "new board" but it is sorta putting a lot of carts before one very important horse.

Hope is not a strategy.
 
RemieV said:
I can think of two separate things that get you immediately banned without discussion or warning.

- Advocating suicide
- Threatening legal action
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Yes, but those are very much exceptions to the rule. If I had to approximate a breakdown of the reasons for bans, I'd say;

75% for bad behavior
20% for sockpuppetry
5% for threats of legal action/advocating suicide
 
Darat said:
Clarification of my role if the plan icerat has given the JREF goes ahead. I have committed to staying on for the transitional period, helping with any technical and administration issues, once the new structure and organisation is created I'll then make a decision as to level of my involvement. I don't feel I can give any more commitment at this point, and of course the new organisation may not want my continued involvement so it would be a tad egocentric to assume I would remain involved in the management of the new place.

At the moment I think icerat's plans are the most likely to keep the forum alive in a technical sense and also retain the spirit of this place, which is why I'm on board with his plans.

Fingers crossed the JREF accepts his plans.
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Good news.
 
Francesca R said:
It's their property.

(The reason for my belief is the limited authority in the JREF's non exclusive licence to reproduce which I understand not to extend to transferring any of it to another party)
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Despite the contradictory statement regarding the JREF being the copyright holder of the forum, the registration agreement does not grant the JREF the right to transfer any content to a third party, nor does it grant the JREF the right to transfer personal, private information to a third party. In the privacy statement it is clearly stated that the JREF will not transfer private information without consent.

I can't consent to the transfer of my personal, private information. I'll be interested in seeing how that particular issue is expected to be resolved.

I don't care about the posts--when I post, that grants implied consent for use on the forum. It's just how it works.
 
I agree with the above being correct.

But the 18GB of data are JREF's property. The JREF can destroy that and is not vandalism in any sense.
 
Pyrrho said:
Despite the contradictory statement regarding the JREF being the copyright holder of the forum, the registration agreement does not grant the JREF the right to transfer any content to a third party, nor does it grant the JREF the right to transfer personal, private information to a third party. In the privacy statement it is clearly stated that the JREF will not transfer private information without consent.

I can't consent to the transfer of my personal, private information. I'll be interested in seeing how that particular issue is expected to be resolved.

I don't care about the posts--when I post, that grants implied consent for use on the forum. It's just how it works.
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Personal data and posts are two entirely different things.

JREF holds a license to reproduce your posts, per the Registration Agreement.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45132

Private data falls under the Privacy Policy.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/faq.php?faq=new_forumprivheader_item

They are being handled separately. We've been given some explanations about how it will work.

For the posts, I think that JREF will publish your old posts in the new forum, just because it can (you gave them license to do so). In other words, the forum will work as always, but should the JREF decide to remove all old posts, they can instruct the forum owner to do so, and the forum owner should do that (not that they will, I guess - I'm just saying that the control is in their hands up to that point).

For the personal data, my understanding is that it will work with a bot that will ask you for permission, and if you grant it, it will transfer your personal data over to the new forum. That requires a server under JREF's control, permanently ready to receive transfer requests. Not sure how long that will last. My own uneducated guess is that they may pull the plug of everything at the same time (six months?), and if you haven't transferred your personal data by then, you won't be able anymore.

But these are all mostly guesses based on what has been explained here already.
 
pgimeno said:
For the posts, I think that JREF will publish your old posts in the new forum, just because it can (you gave them license to do so).
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That has been disputed. A non-exclusive licence does not provide the JREF with the authority to sell or giive any post content to a third party. That is not republishing it is transferring.

I am not going to argue this as I am not a legal expert. It may not be true. I believe (at this stage) that it is true. Hence there would be legal risk to JREF passing on any forum history at all. And no--they may not be scared of legal risks. But that does not mean they would incur them for absolutely no benefit to themselves.

Hopefully I am completely wrong. We shall see soon enough.
 
Anyone know what agreements were in place on other forums that have transferred ownership, like bad astronomy. Anything similar to the jref agreements and if so did it cause any problems in transferring ownership of the forum?
 
Francesca R said:
That has been disputed. A non-exclusive licence does not provide the JREF with the authority to sell or giive any post content to a third party. That is not republishing it is transferring.

...snip...
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It wouldn't be - pgimeno states it very well but you are also correct. The confusion is that we've been using a vaguely defined term "transfer" as a coverall for the entire process.

You are correct the JREF does not have the right (via the registration agreement) to transfer the licence they own to any new entity.

What the JREF can do is transfer the copyright that they own which is the forum itself, that will mean that the new entity can use as much or little of the forum as it wants - for example the structure, how it works and the look and feel.

That as you rightly say does not not include the content of members' posts. So what would happen is that the JREF would "republish" via its licence all the content here onto the new entity's forum. The actual licence (that the JREF owns) to use the members' content would not be transferred. (Consider the new forum as the JREF deciding to publish a book of all the posts from the forum.)

As regards to the personal information i.e. name, country and state if in the USA that will only be moved onto the new forum via a member agreeing to that happening. This will also depend on what "private" information if any the new entity will want for a membership, this is not settled yet, which means there may be no need to transfer anything.
 
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