Future of the Forum

[Chris_Halkides]

a tip of the hat

He [Darat] has done yeoman's work over the last 13 years to make this place the valuable resource and entertaining community that it is, and to just be summarily discarded without even a "thanks for all the fish" is nothing less than shameful (and probably something more than shameful).

I agree with you, and I believe that Lionking offered similar sentiments. I'll support a new forum financially, but the James Randi Educational Foundation has lost my trust. One of the few times I interacted with Darat as a member of the forum, he was a model of how to disagree without being disagreeable. A tip of the hat for that.

 

[Blindwatcher]

Emails aren't visible to anyone except the Admins. How would any of this be any different than if we'd stayed with the JREF and icerat became an Admin?

Wouldnt he have had to sign/agree to the admin agreement restricting what he can and can't do, from what icerat said earlier? As far as I can tell from the statements made he has been given enough access to the server already to get any information he desires without having any restrictions placed on him in an enforceable way.

It will likely turn out that icerat is a great guy but the data should either have been sanitized or he should have had to sign something enforceable saying what he can do with the data before he was given access. If he did, great, everything is fine. If he did not, then I would say that is mishandling of the PI on the JREF's part.

This is all nitpicking at things that already happened and can't be changed, but I disagree with dismissing peoples' concerns about them.

 

[phunk]

Step 1: set up a new hotmail, gmail or yahoo email addy that doesn't contain your real name.

Step 2: sign into forum and go to UserCP>Edit your Details>edit email & password

Step 3: enter your password, your new email address and confirm as indicated

Step 4: Click Save

How hard was that?

So how about users who have been away for a while and don't know this is going on?

 

[jsfisher]

So how about users who have been away for a while and don't know this is going on?

More importantly, why is it the members' responsibility to protect themselves from something the JREF promised it would not do?

 

[icerat]

As far as I can tell from the statements made he has been given enough access to the server already to get any information he desires without having any restrictions placed on him in an enforceable way.

It would be a criminal offence here in the EU (and I think the US). That's pretty enforceable.

 

[madurobob]

So, if you have any lingering brainstorm ideas that you wish to propose, please email to sharon@randi.org by
Wednesday, August 13, at 12 noon Eastern time U.S.

(Posts here are not proposals.)

This is important new information - thanks! Has this deadline existed all along and it just never got communicated, or did I miss it?

I don't envy your position here - I know its a tough situation. I'm sure the JREF didn't hire you by telling you they needed someone to immediately jettison the forums. Because, if they had, I know this would have been planned out and handled far better than it has been so far.

 

[icerat]

So how about users who have been away for a while and don't know this is going on?

I think I've come with a solution to this. Have to run it past JREF and the admin team to see what they think.

oh - just thought of an even better way! It requires a bit more technical work. We have bright and knowledgeable enough people here who have volunteered their expertise and would be able to do it though.

 

[godless dave]

By the way, I completely understand the concept of a discussion forum requiring too many resources, and looking for ways to spin it off.

But why not just say that's what you're planning? Why the vagueness?

 

[jsfisher]

...
oh - just thought of an even better way! It requires a bit more technical work. We have bright and knowledgeable enough people here who have volunteered their expertise and would be able to do it though.

If it involves encryption with two rounds of ROT-13, I can help!!

 

[Lisa Simpson]

The JREF has kindly given me back my Admin powers (for limited use). If you have a concern about your real name or email address, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

In my initial post I put out a call for detailed ideas. We have received productive feedback and suggestions and a proposal. In five days, the JREF board will close the call for proposals. So, if you have any lingering brainstorm ideas that you wish to propose, please email to sharon@randi.org by
Wednesday, August 13, at 12 noon Eastern time U.S.

(Posts here are not proposals.)

Then, we will proceed with the necessary steps. JREF board will make an announcement in conjunction with the party who will take over the Forum.

Translation: We now realise we shouldn't be just giving the forum to the first person who offered, so we are now giving other people the opportunity to propose something, whilst pretending that that is what we were already doing so we don't have to admit to a mistake.

 

[Jeff Wagg]

So the JREF is changing gears, and the forum is not part of the their future plans. Whatever the reasons, that's their decision, and that's where we start.

They have two choices:

1) Turn off the forum. Thanks for all the fish, the highway must come through. It would take them minutes to do this, and then they could go on with their business.

2) Transition the forum to someone else. That involves the JREF staff having meetings, making difficult decisions, monitoring threads, worrying about unforeseen issues... in short, it's a pain in the (what's under MdC's hat).

Against much logic and personal self-interest, the JREF chose option 2. Not only did they do that, they offered to pay for the new server for six months.

Why would the JREF do this? To maintain their reputation? That seems unlikely... their reputation seems to be suffering though this process.

I can only conclude that the JREF, or at least a subset of what the JREF is, actually cares about the forum and the community that's been created.

It's an awkward and sometimes ugly process, but in a way, a lot of people are complaining about the quality of the caviar on the life boat.

 

[fuelair]

Banning all of those would IMO restrict debate too much. Without the racists, sexists and homophobics, who would be left to argue with ?

troofers.....

 

[newyorkguy]

<snip> So, if you have any lingering brainstorm ideas that you wish to propose, please email to sharon@randi.org by
Wednesday, August 13, at 12 noon Eastern time U.S.

(Posts here are not proposals.)

Then, we will proceed with the necessary steps. JREF board will make an announcement in conjunction with the party who will take over the Forum.

This process is moving pretty quickly.

Sharon I have to tell you I think most of us appreciate your involvement and efforts. I also think most of us regret some of the surly comments directed your way. Welcome to JREF!

 

[tsig]

Evidently, host of the largest and longest-lived community of online critical thinking is not among the desiderata.

Yes, it keeps sounding like "We want to narrow our focus to skeptical outreach so let's cut loose the largest collection of skeptics on the internet".

Growing organizations look outward and broaden their focus dying ones look inward and narrow their focus.

 

[icerat]

So the JREF is changing gears, and the forum is not part of the their future plans. Whatever the reasons, that's their decision, and that's where we start.

They have two choices:

1) Turn off the forum. Thanks for all the fish, the highway must come through. It would take them minutes to do this, and then they could go on with their business.

2) Transition the forum to someone else. That involves the JREF staff having meetings, making difficult decisions, monitoring threads, worrying about unforeseen issues... in short, it's a pain in the (what's under MdC's hat).

Against much logic and personal self-interest, the JREF chose option 2. Not only did they do that, they offered to pay for the new server for six months.

Why would the JREF do this? To maintain their reputation? That seems unlikely... their reputation seems to be suffering though this process.

I can only conclude that the JREF, or at least a subset of what the JREF is, actually cares about the forum and the community that's been created.

It's an awkward and sometimes ugly process, but in a way, a lot of people are complaining about the quality of the caviar on the life boat.

there you go being reasonable again. Just to be clear that won't be welcome on any forum I might be running.

 

[lionking]

In my initial post I put out a call for detailed ideas. We have received productive feedback and suggestions and a proposal. In five days, the JREF board will close the call for proposals. So, if you have any lingering brainstorm ideas that you wish to propose, please email to sharon@randi.org by
Wednesday, August 13, at 12 noon Eastern time U.S.

(Posts here are not proposals.)

Then, we will proceed with the necessary steps. JREF board will make an announcement in conjunction with the party who will take over the Forum.

I'm only speaking for myself obviously. You might think this is a helpful, communicative message.

Sorry, it has all the appeal of a cheap, nasty and not well thought out funeral notice.

Now, have you apologised to Darat for your "vitriolic" sledge? This would be a very decent "necessary step" to take.

 

[madurobob]

It's an awkward and sometimes ugly process, but in a way, a lot of people are complaining about the quality of the caviar on the life boat.

Well, my champagnes gone flat, too, but... yeah.

Damn near everyone I've seen post in this thread has at some point admitted hope that the forums may survive and gratitude for it. But, that doesn't mean we can't be annoyed at the ham fisted way this has been handled from the outset.

I'm glad the JREF now seems to be getting out in front of the issue and working with various parties to put together an actual plan.

 

[steenkh]

By the way, I completely understand the concept of a discussion forum requiring too many resources, and looking for ways to spin it off.

But why not just say that's what you're planning? Why the vagueness?

If you have read idoubtit's posts, it is pretty clear that the forum is going to be transferred to another ownership. It is not vague at all.

And they have not complained that the forum takes too many ressources, but that the forum is not in line with the direction they want to take the JREF (and has not been for many years).

 

[godless dave]

So the JREF is changing gears, and the forum is not part of the their future plans. Whatever the reasons, that's their decision, and that's where we start.

That would have been where we started if they had actually said so in the first place.

Like I said, I understand that line of thinking, but why keep it secret? Why not just come out and say it? Why did I only learn about it from a post you, Jeff, made on page 25 of this thread?