• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Future of the Forum

Digital Dan said:
That's what I meant by not requiring it. If you can put in any date then it's not required.

My guess is that the default behavior of the system is to require a date in that field with no built-in way to make it optional. So the admin can choose to modify the source or just let people know they can put in a dummy date. If the rest of the code always assumes a valid date in that field, then such a mod becomes much more difficult to implement and maintain across versions.
Click to expand...

Your guess is wrong. The disclaimer simply covers up the fact that TPTB would not allow the requirement to be dropped and/or the admin/mod team were unable to drop it.

Bluntly, being told at the point of registration that it is OK to lie here is not a good look.
 
Darat said:
It's a bit of a bug in vBulletin, if I recall correctly I couldn't set that field to not required and still let people use it and some folk like their happy birthday gifts so I thought that was a good compromise. (I think I explained that a little back in the thread?)
Click to expand...

DOB required is a Yes/No option in AdminCP.

However, this only holds true for an out of the box install. I have no visibility of any customisations which may have been made.
 
RemieV said:
Of course the JREF was created in order to educate. However, the organization's plans to educate cannot be accomplished without funding. Therefore, funding is of the utmost importance, because it allows the JREF to educate. That's a chicken-egg argument. It doesn't actually indicate the JREF is "self-serving".

As to the rest, you are forgetting one major thing - the forum is labeled 'JREF' which means the content needs to comply with the JREF's brand (and the JREF *is* a brand). While having a forum liaison to set rules handed down by the JREF allows them to exert some kind of control, rules can't be set for things like tone, style, and content beyond general guidelines like "no smut" and "no cursing". When a believer comes in here, sure, there are some fantastic posters who present well-reasoned arguments and treat the newcomer with respect. There are also a high number who only stop in to snark, bully, etc. That isn't a great branding strategy for an organization concerned with outreach.

The JREF has to be concerned with public perception. Do we put a good face on the JREF? We couldn't even stop ourselves from sniping at a JREF staff member whose intention was to help.

Now, if we were the majority of the JREF - if we all had memberships, and we were all donors - maybe that wouldn't matter. It would certainly offset the damage that we can do. But we don't offer that value. So, explain to me, why would the JREF want to keep the forum?

And again - I wish the JREF had massaged the forum into a better place. It's kind of a free-for-all in here. Lots of snark, lots of infighting, people skirting the rules so that they can still get away with calling other posters stupid like somehow that's a meaningful contribution.

Maybe if we had celebrity AMAs we would put on a better face, or if we had a goal for the forum as a whole we would be united. But let's keep in mind here that the mods had to start up a rule disallowing threads on GUN CONTROL, of all things, because users were starting them only to continue infighting.

And what I'm trying to say is - this is our chance to be united. This is our chance to have opinions and be heard and lead this somewhere other than an internet fight between a tiny population of people over things that are essentially meaningless because we never actually DO anything about them.
Click to expand...

Simple solution: Start charging a not-insignificant annual membership fee for your forum. The fair-weather posters will drop like flies, and those who share JREF's vision get to retain their home. You get a more consistent posting narrative, and most likely you get higher buy-in for the brand that you want JREF to be.

And you do it without alienating the actual consumers of your brand. Because at the end of the day, a large portion of posters on this forum ARE your consumers. They're the people that JREF's brand is founded on. And by kicking them to the curb with such little consideration, you're betraying the brand promise that you're trying so hard to build. You'll fail before you're even out the door. You can't be a respected brand if the cornerstone of your reputation - your loyal consumers - are betrayed from day one of your positioning.

You cannot build a brand without consumers. Right now, you are betraying the very consumers on which your brand is founded, and you're damaging the community on which you depend.
 
Last edited:
I think if we get to transfer forums, we need person able to dish out such "vitriol".

Darat, please, be admin there. Thanks.
(I think this is first for me...)
 
Emily's Cat said:
Simple solution: Start charging a not-insignificant annual membership fee for your forum. The fair-weather posters will drop like flies, and those who share JREF's vision get to retain their home. You get a more consistent posting narrative, and most likely you get higher buy-in for the brand that you want JREF to be.

And you do it without alienating the actual consumers of your brand. Because at the end of the day, a large portion of posters on this forum ARE your consumers. They're the people that JREF's brand is founded on. And by kicking them to the curb with such little consideration, you're betraying the brand promise that you're trying so hard to build. You'll fail before you're even out the door. You can't be a respected brand if the cornerstone of your reputation - your loyal consumers - are betrayed from day one of your positioning.

You cannot build a brand without consumers. Right now, you are betraying the very consumers on which your brand is founded, and you're damaging the community on which you depend.
Click to expand...

Perfect, you just made forum luxury. Subject to very brutal consideration if it is actually really worth it and if one is actually able to afford it.
 
Darat said:
It's a bit of a bug in vBulletin, if I recall correctly I couldn't set that field to not required and still let people use it and some folk like their happy birthday gifts so I thought that was a good compromise. (I think I explained that a little back in the thread?)
Click to expand...
Or perhaps you mean that if DOB required is set to off no birthday greets go out even for those that have set a DOB?

In that case, I will freely admit that it is a feature I have never had reason to check out or even pay the slightest attention to. The space I move in is NDA's up the yaya. Birthday greetings would not be well received.
 
icerat said:
I'm in Sweden, our main servers are actually in the UK but at this stage it's planned to setup a new server in the US, which is where most of the traffic comes from.

It has been suggested it may be more sensible to set the forum up somewhere where it's better protected from the regular legal threats it receives.
Click to expand...

What legal threats are you talking about?
 
So, I've had some messages with the folks handling the transition. The forum move is in their hands, and it looks like it's going to move along fairly quickly. I've offered my support and experience if needed, but for now, I'm going step out and let them do what they need to do.

If you want to help, you can. Be patient. Try to keep the complaints to a dull roar. There are good people trying to do the right thing. Let them.
 
Klimax said:
Perfect, you just made forum luxury. Subject to very brutal consideration if it is actually really worth it and if one is actually able to afford it.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the fact that some posters, like me, are currently unemployed and future participation in such a forum possible would be beyond my current means, effectively cutting me of from one of the few pleasures I have left.
 
I can't afford to pay. If I could I would. But as with all such things, if you exclude those who can't pay, you skew the population and steal a voice from the underclass, which is the opposite of educational.

To me, the JREF is a barely visible addendum to the forum. The intelligence and level of knowledge and experience, not to mention critical thinking skills, of so many people on this forum is an education in itself, and it seems obvious to me it is a far more accessible and widespread influence on society than whatever else JREF may be doing.

I can barely comprehend the short-sightedness of the folks who have allowed this situation to arrive like this, and the crassness of their treatment of Darat et al, not to mention the hoi polloi like myself.

But equally I can't understand the antagonism of some commenters in this thread towards icerat and the others who seem to me to be simply trying to rescue the vessel from the rising muddy flood which could swallow this forum any day now, leaving us all adrift like so much jetsam from the cold shouldering ship of ageing fat white men* as they sail off into their imagined land of the future without us.

**** 'em, I say. This forum is our forum, and it's where the wealth remains. Please keep it going, folks!


* ETA: that was just a symbolic representation of them as out of touch, using a cliche as a poetic conceit. I've no idea how old or what sex or race the JREF top dogs are. This is just how they've behaved: like a bad cliche.
 
Last edited:
abaddon said:
Or perhaps you mean that if DOB required is set to off no birthday greets go out even for those that have set a DOB?

In that case, I will freely admit that it is a feature I have never had reason to check out or even pay the slightest attention to. The space I move in is NDA's up the yaya. Birthday greetings would not be well received.
Click to expand...

More or less this.
 
The_Fire said:
Not to mention the fact that some posters, like me, are currently unemployed and future participation in such a forum possible would be beyond my current means, effectively cutting me of from one of the few pleasures I have left.
Click to expand...

And same is true for students and significant portion of world.
 
Klimax said:
Perfect, you just made forum luxury. Subject to very brutal consideration if it is actually really worth it and if one is actually able to afford it.
Click to expand...

Why should you be exempted from that calculation? JREF has to face that calculation, and you expect them to come down in your favor. You expect that they will decide that it is actually really worth it (because you want it, not because they want it) and that they are able to afford it (so that you don't have to). You want JREF to provide the forum to you as a service out of the goodness of their hearts, regardless of whether the members here comport themselves in a fashion which supports JREF's larger vision or not, and regardless of whether the behavior of members on this board reinforces their brand or in fact detracts from it.

JREF as an organization has every right to seek brand cohesion. Any reasonably sane organization should do so - to fail to do so severely limits the ability to achieve the organization's mission. Many of the members here take advantage of JREF's good nature, with little consideration for the mission of the organization. We're here just because it's fun and we like the community.

Why is our fun and feeling of community more important than JREF's organizational objectives?

What I suggest is a compromise. It won't benefit everyone who posts here - some will most assuredly leave. In truth, I'll be one of them, because I'm not a big contributor to JREF's overall vision. But there are many posters here who ARE. They're part of the community that JREF actually depends on as a community-driven organization, and that JREF needs in order to have a successful brand.

If you're one of the ones who leaves when there's a price put on membership here... well, too bad. You're probably not part of the community that JREF needs to retain to keep it's brand whole.

And that's okay.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom