• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Future of the Forum

Sure, but that's not the same thing as saying you don't want icerat in the picture at all.

From what I've gathered over the past seven hours of watching this unfold, the proposal is that the forum would be owned by the College of Curiosity, which is a legal entity with a privacy policy, and icerat would be a volunteer for that organisation tasked with the technical aspects of running the forum.
 
Sure, but that's not the same thing as saying you don't want icerat in the picture at all.

From what I've gathered over the past seven hours of watching this unfold, the proposal is that the forum would be owned by the College of Curiosity, which is a legal entity with a privacy policy, and icerat would be a volunteer for that organisation tasked with the technical aspects of running the forum.

Right - that's not what I was saying. But what I meant was - I can see how that would be the impression. The benefit of pairing with Jeff and CoC is indeed that CoC is a company in the critical thinking world (and is therefore sensitive to the concerns I outlined previously) that has accountability, and Jeff was the JREF forum liaison (and JREF Manager) for five years and not only has experience with forums, but experience with this one specifically.
 
In case anyone is curious:

I have deleted every PM and every email I have ever received including those I have received over the years from people who have had to prove their identity. They are all gone.


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Bad Astronomy Forum has changed hands several times with no problem.

First it joined with Universe Today to become BAUT. Now it is owned and run by Cosmoquest.

It has the same Admins and Mods (I am one of them) There were no issues with Privacy Laws and the forum community is still there and posting.

On a day to day level the ownership of the board doesn't matter to the posters, it is the Admins and Mods they deal with and who enforce the rules etc.

I don't see any problem with Icerat hosting the forum on one of his Servers if the Moderation Policy and the rules are to remain.
 
Oh, I can see where it came from. It's because when I posted about handing the forum over, I pointed out that it's against privacy laws (and the contractual obligations in the privacy policy penned by JREF) to do that. However, that's not on my behalf. I was staff at the JREF. My name is all over these forums, and I don't have anonymity here anyway. My issue is that thousands of people signed up here believing that the privacy policy was true. It isn't about whether the information is sold to a company for advertising purposes, either. People have put sensitive information about their atheism or gender identity or whatever else on this forum with the understanding that they could remain anonymous and vent their problems without it carrying over into their real lives. And this isn't hyperbole. People have posted that they believe they will be disowned, fired, divorced, etc if they tell the people in their lives their real views.

If the JREF actually DOES wipe that information if people don't opt into the switch, great. But there has been no clear answer on whether or not that is going to happen.

And, you know, I'd think that an organization with a leader who felt the need to keep his sexual orientation private for the majority of his life would understand that when you tell a secret to people you trust, it isn't cool for those people to turn around and say, "Oh, well, we're just going to pass that secret along to someone we've known for five seconds because we saw their LinkedIn."

I don't know icerat, and I'm sure that this PROBABLY IS fine - but then I have nothing to lose. And this thread is tucked away pretty damn well. The vast majority of people with accounts haven't even seen it. No - I don't think it's right to hand it over and not give those people the choice about whether or not to trust a third party who just happens to be the first person to volunteer with their information.


RemieV is correct. I did not sign up to icerat or COC whoever that is and whatever that is.
I trusted my personal information to the JREF alone.
The only way to do this is to let the forum die completely.
All info wiped away.
All the others everyone is typing about can start their own skeptic forums elsewhere and if I find one of the forums and decide to give them my personal info then it is as it should be, all on me.
 
It looks like all that need be done to preserve privacy is to erase the database of user IDs and require people to re-register their data at the new forum within a certain time- as happened here back when the minimum age requirement was introduced. Doable, surely?

There have always been a large number of registered users who have never posted at all. I sometimes wonder how many are sock puppets or "sleepers" of some sort. Seems to me that dumping all those would be good, if only in saved resources.

I'm starting to feel positive about this. It's not like RDF where pure poison was flowing - what we have here is a manageable situation. JREF has decided to reshape. They don't see a place for the forum in that. OK, we regret that, but let's stay friends and move on.
We have the beginnings of a hardware solution. We have the suggestion of a known face as front man. We can do this and even emerge with something better than we have now. Right now, let those who can paddle do so. The rest of us, let's not rock the boat.
 
BAUT changed hands with no Database erasure or needing to re-register.
 
Out of interest, what personal data is held. Names, email, Dob. Anything else?
 
I have no personal information on the JREF board that I get two squirts about, after all I intentionally use my real name more often then not is because I don't want to hide behind some well crafted online persona so there's nothing here that could really "get out" as far as I'm concerned. I do respect the feelings of those that feel differently however.

But yeah this whole situation stinks. Had JREF just shutdown the board that would have been one thing but stringing people along once the forums issues came about then dropping such a bomb... I'm sorry that just sounds opportunistic.

This whole thing just reeks of "We were looking for a reason to cut the forum loose that would play well in Peoria and we finally found one" sort of thing.
 
Addendum: While I wished shared other people's optimism regarding the future of the forum and want to state honestly that I have said few things in my life which would please me more to be proven wrong about then the following.... no. Feet to the coals, warts and all honest I don't see it happening.

The Woo Slingers have always been the stronger voices on this board. It's the rules and the backing, even a token one, of a premier skeptical organization that has keep this place balanced. This place repurposed into a generic forum no matter how well intentioned and well run might as well just be renamed whale.to Part II: Electric Boogaloo.

This place is probably not long for this world in any sense that matters. I hope I'm wrong, hell I want to be wrong. But I don't think I am.
 
James Randi Educational Foundation

Educational Grant Recipients


2010:

Alan Liepzig - Seminole Middle School
Leipzig's project, called Retaking the Stars, was part of his Starfleet Academy, an astrophysics/engineering class for 8th graders.
Students used the research materials purchased by this grant to systematically investigate the claims and history behind astrology and the science against it. At the same time, Leipzig used a variety of approaches to teach critical thinking concepts such as the Forer Effect, wishful thinking, confirmation bias, logical fallacies, and selective thinking.
Well ain't that just [Cartman] sweet.
Meanwhile over in the leper colony under General Skepticism and The Paranormal we have 13,600 threads with 730,000 posts.


2011:

David Robinson - Wilson High School Robinson brought new materials and equipment into his high school earth science classroom to expand his existing curriculum that scientifically examines the claims of astrology. This program had students critically analyzing astrology as a pathway to better understand the nature of science. He worked with iPad apps, video resources, and content from the JREF to examine the zodiac and related paranormal and pseudoscientific beliefs while exposing students to the true wonders of the real science behind the stars—Astronomy.
Top hole sir, absolutely spiffing.
Meanwhile over in the soon to be cast out, the Science & Technology bit has 21,000 threads and 900,000 posts.

Religion & Philosophy over a million posts.
Conspiracy Theories over a million posts.

This forum has gathered many millions of hits from, who knows? But I suspect out of those millions some heads have been turned. James Randi spending money sending kids on a jolly to a TB hospital? That's difficult to quantify but I dare say these forums are the best bang for the buck.
 
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Addendum: While I wished shared other people's optimism regarding the future of the forum and want to state honestly that I have said few things in my life which would please me more to be proven wrong about then the following.... no. Feet to the coals, warts and all honest I don't see it happening.

The Woo Slingers have always been the stronger voices on this board. It's the rules and the backing, even a token one, of a premier skeptical organization that has keep this place balanced. This place repurposed into a generic forum no matter how well intentioned and well run might as well just be renamed whale.to Part II: Electric Boogaloo.

This place is probably not long for this world in any sense that matters. I hope I'm wrong, hell I want to be wrong. But I don't think I am.

Haven't you heard. The JREF has already turned control over to <SNIP> icerat. Who or what he she it is I guess is unimportant as long as he she it can keep the forum up.
Whatever his hers its world view is will become the new guiding light no doubt.

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Haven't you heard. The JREF has already turned control over to <SNIP> icerat. Who or what he she it is I guess is unimportant as long as he she it can keep the forum up.
Whatever his hers its world view is will become the new guiding light no doubt.

icerat is Australian, lives in Sweden and runs an internet company of some sort. If you are really interested in who he is, that's enough to start Googling with. I think it would be within the ability of several posters to ID him , if they cared. Or you might just ask him.

If you have real concerns about him being able to ID you, why not PM him now and explain what you would like deleted? Not that I think he can do it yet, but sooner or later he will. Or Jeff Wagg will, or someone else will, because someone else will take over the forum.
Or it will be closed.

You might prefer that; and your reasons might be good, but nothing you can realistically do will recover or remove any data you may have concerns about. Your best chance of that is to cooperate with the inevitable, rather than be rude to the person who currently looks like the man most likely to have access to said data.

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While I don't know to what if any degree I share his exact complaints or the level to which he is concerned with them, I don't think in general a feeling of unease over information which was given in good faith to one organization being handed over to another organization should simply be dismissed.
 
Haven't you heard. The JREF has already turned control over to <SNIP> icerat. Who or what he she it is I guess is unimportant as long as he she it can keep the forum up.
Whatever his hers its world view is will become the new guiding light no doubt.

Tell me Brattus, how much do you know about -

  • Lisa Simpson
  • LashL
  • (Deputy) Locknar
  • Darat

They currently run the forum and have access to all of your private information etc. In reality no paid member of JREF actually has had admin access to the forum for some time.

But since you're so concerned about how I might operate the forum, you can read more about me here.

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