• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Future of the Forum

OnlyTellsTruths said:
Hardware, sure, but software??
Click to expand...
Without knowing the details of this issue, how can one know? The issue is with some specific software, running with a given amount of load on some unknown hardware. Is it impossible that the forum software isn't particularly efficient? We've already seen them trying to turn some features off to reduce load.
 
Last edited:
shuttlt said:
Is it impossible that the forum software isn't particularly efficient?
Click to expand...


Yes. We know it is in fact. But two points:

#1: Another larger and more active forum is using the exact same relatively inefficient version of vBulletin that we are and it loads just fine. No seemingly random several hour long sessions of slowness.

#2: Because of the add-ons used on this forum and because of a few other reasons, transferring the content of this forum to another version of vBulletin or to another forum software entirely would be a gargantuan nightmare of a task.


Because of those two reasons, and if there is a simple hardware fix, the hardware fix is the obvious solution for our needs.

If the forum is moved to a dedicated and sufficient server and it then still has problems, then and only then should one consider a nightmarish (and possibly forum life altering) software transfer.
 
OnlyTellsTruths said:
Yes. We know it is in fact. But two points:

#1: Another larger and more active forum is using the exact same relatively inefficient version of vBulletin that we are and it loads just fine. No seemingly random several hour long sessions of slowness.

#2: Because of the add-ons used on this forum and because of a few other reasons, transferring the content of this forum to another version of vBulletin or to another forum software entirely would be a gargantuan nightmare of a task.


Because of those two reasons, and if there is a simple hardware fix, the hardware fix is the obvious solution for our needs.

If the forum is moved to a dedicated and sufficient server and it then still has problems, then and only then should one consider a nightmarish (and possibly forum life altering) software transfer.
Click to expand...
I'm a software guy and I'm always loathe to just throw hardware at problem.

However, if the above is correct it would be unwise to do otherwise in this case.

If JREF really wants help from people here, then we need accurate information. First and foremost is a confirmation of exactly what the hardware and software that is running the forum.
 
Oh, I agree that looking at the application side can certainly be a can of worms. "How much faster do we need to do the stuff we are doing right now to get it done fast enough?" is a simpler question. If some forum features don't scale though, we may only be delaying addressing root causes. What the scalability limits are on this future infrastructure might be worth knowing.
 
Spindrift said:
I'm a software guy and I'm always loathe to just throw hardware at problem.
Click to expand...
I'm a hardware guy (more or less) and I agree with you sentiment. I'm reminded of a document from EMC about the impact on performance of different layers in the stack. It was an inverted pyramid with application at the top. It takes a lot of hardware take make the same impact that can often be made by tuning the software.
 
On the flip side, hardware is often cheap compared to people, so is it better to spend a few hundred or thousand dollars to double the RAM, or spend tens of thousands on developers to improve RAM usage? Depends, the idealist in me wants to fix the software (quality software, future scalability blah blah), the pragmatist in me asks what the business needs are and what the realistic future needs are. Do the developers even have the time, would their efforts be better spent on features that bring in more customers, etc etc.

I have seen a number of forums that have highly customized their forum software and database though, sometimes you don't have money for hardware but you have volunteer developers that are free.

I should change my username to "itdepends"
 
Kind of depends on how things scale. If it's the kind of problem that grows linearly(ish) and can be fixed with a bit of hardware, sure fix it with hardware. Who knows though?
 
abaddon said:
All of the various flavours have good and bad points.

I will state here and now that if JREF folds, I will host a new site at my own expense once it is gone.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't be the first time that has happened.
 
Spindrift said:
I'm a software guy and I'm always loathe to just throw hardware at problem.

However, if the above is correct it would be unwise to do otherwise in this case. If JREF really wants help from people here, then we need accurate information. First and foremost is a confirmation of exactly what the hardware and software that is running the forum.
Click to expand...

It may be difficult to getthis data from JREF.
Is may be they don't know.
Do they know what "dedicated" means in this context, for example?

Sharon's own website suggests she has no special knowledge in this field. Indeed,her post suggests she thinks this forum has a single moderator.
I suspect the knowledge of the other JREF staff re forum maintenance is at a similar level. (As in any small group of non computer nerds; why would JREF be any different?They do other stuff.) It is therefore critical that those here who do have such knowledge should email her , asking for that data and offering advice accordingly.

Keeping Darat in the loop makes sense and would be simple courtesy, so I'd suggest anyone emailing Sharon with constructive suggestions copies the email here and drops Darat a heads up PM with a link to the relevant post.
 
Soapy Sam said:
Keeping Darat in the loop makes sense and would be simple courtesy, so I'd suggest anyone emailing Sharon with constructive suggestions copies the email here and drops Darat a heads up PM with a link to the relevant post.
Click to expand...


Excellent suggestions, Soapy Sam. Or, you can cc Darat at darat@randi.org .
 
Floyt said:
Are there any special reasons for this coyness? (except for, I suspect, an atavistic urge to Not Tell The Internet Proprietary Information...)
Click to expand...
Don't do that. This problem is going to need LOTS of communications between parties with HUGELY different skills, knowledge and experience. To start accusing one party of bad faith at the outset is to poison the well with utterly bad consequences. Can we assume the good faith and intentions of others. And if those do come into question, leave the ad homs at home and focus on the issues.

Please.
 
abaddon said:
All of the various flavours have good and bad points.

I will state here and now that if JREF folds, I will host a new site at my own expense once it is gone.
Click to expand...

I've offered via email to, if necessary, take it over and maintain it with or without JREF branding. That would be a better option than starting over.

If it comes to that I'm more than happy for us (indeed prefer) to work with others on a solution.

(For some background I founded and ran a successful ISP in Oz back in the 90s before selling it and moving to Europe, starting a dedicated hosting company, then selling it to pursue other interests. I now have another internet related startup)
 
I propose a fund raising effort specifically for the purpose of a hardware/software upgrade for the forum.
BTW, I know there are a lot of variables here, but how about a ballpark figure for how much we are talking about?
 
SezMe said:
Don't do that. This problem is going to need LOTS of communications between parties with HUGELY different skills, knowledge and experience. To start accusing one party of bad faith at the outset is to poison the well with utterly bad consequences. Can we assume the good faith and intentions of others. And if those do come into question, leave the ad homs at home and focus on the issues.

Please.
Click to expand...

I think that is a misinterpretation of the post. I think it should be read as a request for more information and nothing more. At the moment no new information has been provided by the OP other than JREF is going to address the issue of poor performance of the forum.
 
idoubtit said:
The forum is on dedicated hardware that cannot be sustained. A move to new hardware and software is needed. That's the issue that must be solved.

I would like the admins to contact me so we can work out details. I don't know who will take charge of supplying the final input on behalf of the forum but would like that established so we can start moving this ahead.

Also, if you are willing to help with the nuts and bolts discussion, that will need to progress via email. Send me your email address and your capabilities.

Sharon@randi.org
Click to expand...


As in your point 3 in the original post where you notified "the forum moderator", this seems like you actually have not much of a clue about how the forum is run, for whatever reason.

As some informed people have said, it seems like the problems are mostly due to a lack of hardware power. I suggest your next step is to get someone to look up the contract you have with SoftLayer and post both the hardware specifications and the costs in this thread. I can't see anything standing in way of transparency here.

The informed people will tell you if the current hardware is the definite problem or if there is something else to look after. Likely it is the former, and not unlikely the contract is a couple of years old given that the forum doesn't seem to have been a JREF priority for the last few years.

Meaning that today you would get a lot more power for the bucks you signed in for, likely enough for the current needs, and I suggest that you lay all of this out to the amazing Randi and let him make the phone call for a new deal.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom