Continuation Part Nine: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Desert Fox]

...led you to believe we were 'debating' ?

So you are openly admitting you are only here to Troll?

 

[carbonjam72]

It was in their interest to convince themselves against the evidence, and they did, and still do.I may have been misunderstood.
I agree with everyone that miscarriages of justice can occur in the US, or anywhere.
But for the whole NATIONAL judiciary to circle the wagons to protect the hick town to protect NATIONAL Honor, as the Italian Judiciary has, is something that I do not see happening.
And if this case has shown anything, it has shown that the Italian Public is terrified of its own judiciary.

This is one of the most interesting issues for me.

Mignini has demonstrated a phenomenal ability to get stuck on really dumb ideas (many coming from the psychic medium Gabriella Carlizzi in Narducci, Spezi, Kercher & the Florence 20), and hold onto them no matter what. And if anyone disagrees with him, it can only mean they are part of the criminal plot and are working against Mignini only to get away with their crimes.

As for circling the wagons, pretty much says it all. Hard to believe they'll take it all the way though.

 

[Machiavelli]

(...)
There were definitely WMD. There was definitely a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda. Saddam was definitely close to getting a nuke. And so on. All repeated publicly for months . . . there are still citizens who can't believe it was all a lie.

Nice observation. In fact, there are also citizens (Americans) who seem to believe Mignini put forward a ritualistic or Satanic scenario, counseld with psychic Carlizzi on the Narducci case, believe Preston delusion or think Spezi & C are innocent, that docters fabricated bogus HIV tests, that Italian media played by ahthorities disseminated lies against Knox in order to prejudice the trial, that Knox and Sollecits accounts had no contradictions, that Knox never attended a drug dealers ring, that Questura never writes documents in Comic SF, that Stefanoni lied and hid results, and that Conti and Vecchiotti are independent...

 

[Desert Fox]

To be fair, the intent is not debate. The intent is to highlight in yellow one item in the post, and then make a smart remark about it.....

It's the highlighting in yellow which gives it away....

I tend to prefer to operate honestly and not troll.
It is monstrous to try to understand what the pro guilt side will argue make allusions to next

 

[Bill Williams]

Nice observation. In fact, there are also citizens (Americans) who seem to believe Mignini put forward a ritualistic or Satanic scenario, counseld with psychic Carlizzi on the Narducci case, believe Preston delusion or think Spezi & C are innocent, that docters fabricated bogus HIV tests, that Italian media played by ahthorities disseminated lies against Knox in order to prejudice the trial, that Knox and Sollecits accounts had no contradictions, that Knox never attended a drug dealers ring, that Questura never writes documents in Comic SF, that Stefanoni lied and hid results, and that Conti and Vecchiotti are independent...

Welcome back Machiavelli. You've just debunked my personal theory that the reason you quit posting was because Mario Spezi's trial process did not go well for your guy, Mignini.

Can you, though, offer an opinion as to why this ridiculous Amanda was a coke-head theory was never brought to court? Can you offer an opinion as to why some of the results of drug tests were never offered to any of the three courts hearing evidence? My view is because they showed that Knox never used cocaine?

 

[kwill]

Nice observation. In fact, there are also citizens (Americans) who seem to believe Mignini put forward a ritualistic or Satanic scenario,

Which prosecutor was Il Tempo referring to?

The murder, Il Tempo newspaper reported him telling the court, “was premeditated and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Hallowe’en. A sexual and sacrificial rite ... In the intention of the organisers, the rite should have occurred 24 hours earlier” – on Hallowe’en itself – “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organised by Meredith and Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed for one day. The presumed assassins contented themselves with the evening of 1 November to perform their do-it-yourself rite, when for some hours it would again be the night of All Saints.”

counseld with psychic Carlizzi on the Narducci case,

Ha ha ha . . . so you're saying Mignini came up with the double-switched body scenario all on his own? I'm not sure that's better.

believe Preston delusion

What delusion?

or think Spezi & C are innocent,

Of what? And who is C?

that docters fabricated bogus HIV tests,

Well, I don't think that's the accusation. The accusation is that there was never a positive HIV test for AK. Not that doctors fabricated it. If there was one, where is it? Wouldn't such a thing be recorded in her prison files?

that Italian media played by ahthorities disseminated lies against Knox in order to prejudice the trial,

Harry Potter book. Bleach receipt. Missing sweater in plain sight. These were lies. Someone disseminated them.

that Knox and Sollecits accounts had no contradictions,

Not exactly. What we say is that anyone who is asked to give an hour-by-hour account of an evening five days earlier during which nothing special happened will be unable to be certain of many details. See the accounts of the British women as to the evening they spent with Meredith. Full of meaningless contradictions.

that Knox never attended a drug dealers ring,

Correct. I do say that. If you know of evidence to the contrary, let's see it.

that Questura never writes documents in Comic SF,

Lost me there.

that Stefanoni lied and hid results,

She did. It's been shown repeatedly, in detail.

and that Conti and Vecchiotti are independent...

You think someone paid them? Who? Why?

 

[acbytesla]

Nice observation. In fact, there are also citizens (Americans) who seem to believe Mignini put forward a ritualistic or Satanic scenario,

counseld with psychic Carlizzi on the Narducci case, believe Preston delusion or think Spezi & C are innocent, that docters fabricated bogus HIV tests, that Italian media played by ahthorities disseminated lies against Knox in order to prejudice the trial, that Knox and Sollecits accounts had no contradictions, that Knox never attended a drug dealers ring, that Questura never writes documents in Comic SF, that Stefanoni lied and hid results, and that Conti and Vecchiotti are independent...

You're arguments are fraying at the edges. Spezi is innocent or have you forgot that his case was dismissed? Out of curiosity, how did they get a list of Amanda Knox's sexual partners? And show us the evidence that Knox attended a drug dealers ring? Or that Conti and Vechiotti are not independent.

I notice you have no problem with saying there is a conspiracy involving Hellmann and Conti and Vechiotti and everyone else.

I find it hard to believe that official documents have EVER been printed using the Microsoft COMIC SANS MS. Not exactly a dignified font for official government documents.

I love this font, because it is so informal. But this is the exact reason, they would never use it. But still it is possible, just change the font in Microsoft Office. But what makes that really impossible, is that they would use that font for the the official letterhead for the Questura di Perugia. Also it is interesting that while it is signed, the names are not printed below the
signatures.

The fax that is banging around Twitter is the one Machiavelli is mentioning.

Ask yourself, would your courthouse or Police Station use this font?

Questura di Perugia.

 

[moije2]

You're arguments are fraying at the edges. Spezi is innocent or have you forgot that his case was dismissed? Out of curiosity, how did they get a list of Amanda Knox's sexual partners? And show us the evidence that Knox attended a drug dealers ring? Or that Conti and Vechiotti are not independent.

I notice you have no problem with saying there is a conspiracy involving Hellmann and Conti and Vechiotti and everyone else.

I find it hard to believe that official documents have EVER been printed using the Microsoft COMIC SANS MS. Not exactly a dignified font for official government documents.

I love this font, because it is so informal. But this is the exact reason, they would never use it. But still it is possible, just change the font in Microsoft Office. But what makes that really impossible, is that they would use that font for the the official letterhead for the Questura di Perugia. Also it is interesting that while it is signed, the names are not printed below the
signatures.

The fax that is banging around Twitter is the one Machiavelli is mentioning.

Ask yourself, would your courthouse or Police Station use this font?

Questura di Perugia.

The bulk of kwill's comment I agree with.

But as for the font utilized, don't make assumptions there. Italians have there own sensibilities and one of their cultural contributions is just that, their artistic sensibilities. I have seen grown men in lime green suits with those oh-so-cute totally impractical shoes. What works in Italy may not work, for example, in Seattle. And vice-versa. My internal comment was that Italian men have a freedom to be very flamboyant by US standards at the same time as they are also very macho, by US standards. Now, back to font style. They just might utilize such a font. My quick search has revealed not much different type styles. Don't apply your own sense of propriety to the font used by officials. I am certain that they would consider that very egocentric, or ethnocentric.

You get the idea. This comment makes no statement as to the actual validitiy of the document. I will let the legitimacy of the document play out.

 

[platonov]

A long time ago in a cartwheel not so far away

So you are openly admitting you are only here to Troll?

Nope
I dealt with this issue quite some time ago.

 

[acbytesla]

The bulk of kwill's comment I agree with.

But as for the font utilized, don't make assumptions there. Italians have there own sensibilities and one of their cultural contributions is just that, their artistic sensibilities. I have seen grown men in lime green suits with those oh-so-cute totally impractical shoes. What works in Italy may not work, for example, in Seattle. And vice-versa. My internal comment was that Italian men have a freedom to be very flamboyant by US standards at the same time as they are also very macho, by US standards. Now, back to font style. They just might utilize such a font. My quick search has revealed not much different type styles. Don't apply your own sense of propriety to the font used by officials. I am certain that they would consider that very egocentric, or ethnocentric.

You get the idea. This comment makes no statement as to the actual validitiy of the document. I will let the legitimacy of the document play out.

While you might be correct, I still find it hard to believe. I've seen Americans wear garish clothes as well. You usually don't see that in government institutions. I do find the sash that some of their officials wear more than strange. That doesn't mean that official documents would use such an informal font.

I'd really like to see other Questura documents with this font in the LETTERHEAD to be convinced. I have been to their website and nowhere is this font found. Also, for a legal document, the lack of typed names below the signatures seem strange.

The problems moije2 is that we are finding more and more fabricated nonsense news. The Ground Report article, a fake twitter account for Gogerty Marriott, the drug story, Raffaele, throwing Amanda under the bus, etc. etc. etc.

While I can't say 100 percent for sure that this document is fake, the needle is hitting the top of the bs guage. It has all the earmarks of being fraudulent.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Nice observation. In fact, there are also citizens (Americans) who seem to believe Mignini put forward a ritualistic or Satanic scenario, counseld with psychic Carlizzi on the Narducci case, believe Preston delusion or think Spezi & C are innocent, that docters fabricated bogus HIV tests, that Italian media played by ahthorities disseminated lies against Knox in order to prejudice the trial, that Knox and Sollecits accounts had no contradictions, that Knox never attended a drug dealers ring, that Questura never writes documents in Comic SF, that Stefanoni lied and hid results, and that Conti and Vecchiotti are independent...

Guess what? There are some Italians who believe some of these things too.

You know what else? Absolutely much of the above is irrefutably true. Sorry.

 

[kwill]

What works in Italy may not work, for example, in Seattle. And vice-versa.

Yes, indeed. The cultural differences between AK and the Perugian police/prosecutors/journalists were plenty wide enough to swallow up her innocence.

She had no way of knowing what they were taking away from her "behavior."

And they had no way of knowing -- at first -- how radically far off the mark their interpretations were. That's what the evidence was supposed to make clear, if only they'd been able to collect it professionally, process it according to standard protocol, and follow where it led: Straight to Rudy and nobody else.

Instead they've struggled for 6+ years to force this case to work with AK & RS involved. It's never going to.

 

[anglolawyer]

Amanda 'attended a drug ring'? What does that even mean? Machiavelli, we know she took no hard drugs because they tested her hair and found no trace. That is the end of that canard. Just like negative TMB is the end of the luminol lie. Not that it would matter even if she did take hard drugs and/or have a promiscuous sex life. So what?

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

You're arguments are fraying at the edges. Spezi is innocent or have you forgot that his case was dismissed? Out of curiosity, how did they get a list of Amanda Knox's sexual partners? And show us the evidence that Knox attended a drug dealers ring? Or that Conti and Vechiotti are not independent.

I notice you have no problem with saying there is a conspiracy involving Hellmann and Conti and Vechiotti and everyone else.

I find it hard to believe that official documents have EVER been printed using the Microsoft COMIC SANS MS. Not exactly a dignified font for official government documents.

I love this font, because it is so informal. But this is the exact reason, they would never use it. But still it is possible, just change the font in Microsoft Office. But what makes that really impossible, is that they would use that font for the the official letterhead for the Questura di Perugia. Also it is interesting that while it is signed, the names are not printed below the
signatures.

The fax that is banging around Twitter is the one Machiavelli is mentioning.

Ask yourself, would your courthouse or Police Station use this font?

Questura di Perugia.

 

[moije2]

While you might be correct, I still find it hard to believe. I've seen Americans wear garish clothes as well. You usually don't see that in government institutions. I do find the sash that some of their officials wear more than strange. That doesn't mean that official documents would use such an informal font.

I'd really like to see other Questura documents with this font in the LETTERHEAD to be convinced. I have been to their website and nowhere is this font found. Also, for a legal document, the lack of typed names below the signatures seem strange.

The problems moije2 is that we are finding more and more fabricated nonsense news. The Ground Report article, a fake twitter account for Gogerty Marriott, the drug story, Raffaele, throwing Amanda under the bus, etc. etc. etc.

While I can't say 100 percent for sure that this document is fake, the needle is hitting the top of the bs guage. It has all the earmarks of being fraudulent.

I agree. It is just dangerous to make an assumption here. I think I saw others with similar reaction, I just thought it prudent to hold on a bit because the reaction to that document was more visceral, and may not hold true. And we must take into account the possibility of different standards of propriety. After all, IMO, that is no small part of the problem here. One of the things I love about this case is how it exposes different thought patterns. As we all know, the concept of logic has two (at least) worlds when looking at this case.

 

[acbytesla]

I agree. It is just dangerous to make an assumption here. I think I saw others with similar reaction, I just thought it prudent to hold on a bit because the reaction to that document was more visceral, and may not hold true. And we must take into account the possibility of different standards of propriety. After all, IMO, that is no small part of the problem here. One of the things I love about this case is how it exposes different thought patterns. As we all know, the concept of logic has two (at least) worlds when looking at this case.

I agree, making assumptions are dangerous. That said, I can't find that logo or font elsewhere for the Questura. There is no address, phone, fax, email or address on the letterhead. Really strange in this day and age.

It is signed, but you can't read the signatures and no names are printed below the signatures. Also, there isn't a complete name anywhere in the document. You have to ask why? While I can't say 100 percent for sure that this document is fake, the needle is hitting the top of the bs guage. It has all the earmarks of being fraudulent. Look for yourself.

I see this fax as a way of creating plausible deniability. Someone creates their own letterhead and then distributes it as real to the media. The media doesn't really care. It's copy to them. Everyone is just a little too clever. Mignini's mention of this kind of shows, that while he is trying to keep his distance from this story, he has no desire to actually tell the truth, so he cleverly keeps it alive while saying it is irrelevant.

 

[NancyS]

Amanda 'attended a drug ring'? What does that even mean? Machiavelli, we know she took no hard drugs because they tested her hair and found no trace. That is the end of that canard. Just like negative TMB is the end of the luminol lie. Not that it would matter even if she did take hard drugs and/or have a promiscuous sex life. So what?

I was wondering this, what is a drug ring? You have a student town, which is well known as being a party town with lots of drugs - drug use in the town seems to be so ubiquitous that even prosecution witnesses are using hard drugs and the prosecution don't even question their reliability, which makes me think that perhaps they are using drugs themselves.

And them you have Amanda who tested negative for drug use, her urine test would have indicated cocaine use in the previous few days and her hair strand would have shown cocaine use from at least the last 90-days. I'm assuming that these negative results are the reason why this drug nonsense was never brought to court? All this talk of Amanda being surrounded by drug rings and dealers is making her sound like a paragon of virtue and that she had the strength to say NO, even when surrounded by temptation.

Just as much of this nonsense could have been written about Meredith. She seemed like a fairly normal young girl from just outside London, who enjoyed an active social life - she would needed to have been incredibly sheltered not to have come into contact with people that used drugs and dealt drugs. Her father was even a tabloid journalist and the British media is well known for their love of cocaine - if the situations were reversed it would be easy to create headlines stating nonsense such as 'Meredith's father had contact with known drug dealers'. Even his friend Piers Morgan has admitted to his drug use http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1050530/Piers-Morgan-Why-I-tell-kids-I-did-drugs.html

It's all such nonsense and horribly depressing that this is taken seriously by some idiots

 

[Samson]

I was wondering this, what is a drug ring? You have a student town, which is well known as being a party town with lots of drugs - drug use in the town seems to be so ubiquitous that even prosecution witnesses are using hard drugs and the prosecution don't even question their reliability, which makes me think that perhaps they are using drugs themselves.

And them you have Amanda who tested negative for drug use, her urine test would have indicated cocaine use in the previous few days and her hair strand would have shown cocaine use from at least the last 90-days. I'm assuming that these negative results are the reason why this drug nonsense was never brought to court? All this talk of Amanda being surrounded by drug rings and dealers is making her sound like a paragon of virtue and that she had the strength to say NO, even when surrounded by temptation.

Just as much of this nonsense could have been written about Meredith. She seemed like a fairly normal young girl from just outside London, who enjoyed an active social life - she would needed to have been incredibly sheltered not to have come into contact with people that used drugs and dealt drugs. Her father was even a tabloid journalist and the British media is well known for their love of cocaine - if the situations were reversed it would be easy to create headlines stating nonsense such as 'Meredith's father had contact with known drug dealers'. Even his friend Piers Morgan has admitted to his drug use http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1050530/Piers-Morgan-Why-I-tell-kids-I-did-drugs.html

It's all such nonsense and horribly depressing that this is taken seriously by some idiots

After a long libellous post just now, Peter Quennell nevertheless concludes with

Knox was never charged with drug use or drug dealing. As Tuesday’s post noted, it was for the defenses to make something of it at Meredith’s murder trial if they wanted to.

Maybe seek a reduced charge arguing diminished responsibility. But they didn’t.

It is clear that neither the police or prosecution put a foot wrong, and by the end of 2009 they had put away both Knox and the drug dealers. And it is clear that it is not they who are now pushing this story.

Therefore he is running and hunting for maximum effect.

Amanda was a conscientious objector to medication in jail. This would be surprising for a guilty heavy drug user would it not? Less so for an innocent light user.

 

[Desert Fox]

Amanda 'attended a drug ring'? What does that even mean? Machiavelli, we know she took no hard drugs because they tested her hair and found no trace. That is the end of that canard. Just like negative TMB is the end of the luminol lie. Not that it would matter even if she did take hard drugs and/or have a promiscuous sex life. So what?

Probably just meant that she knew people who were involved in hard drugs.
Problem is that I suspect that at least half of us here know somebody who is involved in hard drugs.

 

[Katody Matrass]

I tend to think the Comic Sans note really comes from the Perugian cops. In fact it perfectly expresses their Donald Duck approach to investigations.

Interestingly what the comic sans cops wrote is very different from what Mach et consortes tell you. It doesn't say or imply Amanda "attended a drug ring". It doesn't say she was supplied cocaine. It doesn't mention any phone contact with F (from the phone records it doesn't seem there was any).

Reading the comic sans note what I think happened is this:
The comic sans cops confiscated Amanda's diary and learned there was a F. who smoked and fooled around with Amanda during her stay in Florence some month before. Hence the "rapporti di tipo sessuale".

Comic cops go through Amanda's phone and find a number of some other F. who resides in Perugia. They routinely wiretap every phone number out of her phonebook and at some moment the poor F. guy who Amanda never even phoned contacts some known drug dealer and is busted.

IMO
It's not the same guy who Amanda met on a train.
There is no evidence Amanda ever phoned him because she never did.

The document comes from the cops. It's the same smear tactic as the "missing sweatshirt evidence", "harry potter evidence" and other lies.