Ken Ham says Aliens will go to Hell

sphenisc said:
No he doesn't.
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"This means that any aliens would also be affected by Adam’s sin, but because they are not Adam’s descendants, they can’t have salvation."
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The implication is either that these aliens, like the baser animals do not have a soul and thus cannot be 'saved' and thus cannot enter heaven; or they have a soul but Jesus died only for human souls thus they cannot be saved and thus not only cannot enter heaven but also will go to the residence of unsaved souls, hell.
However the Bible does not taint animals with Adam's sin, therefore the former, that these are soul-less beings, cannot be what Ham believes. If therefore, they are in posssession of a soul, tainted by Adam's sin, but unsaved and therefore still under the penalty for Adam's sin, they are going to hell.

Either produce a contrary argument or accept this one.


If you want evidence that Ham considers the final (non) resting place of unsaved souls, then you haven't paid him, or the Bible , much attention.
 
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jaydeehess said:
... However the Bible does not taint animals with Adam's sin, therefore the former, that these are soul-less beings, cannot be what Ham believes. If therefore, they are in posssession of a soul, tainted by Adam's sin, but unsaved and therefore still under the penalty for Adam's sin, they are going to hell.
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An interesting statement on Adam's sin is to be found in the Encyclical Humani generis by Pius XII, 1950.
37. ... the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.
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In these terms, as the aliens are not descended from Adam, no original sin is inherited by them "through generation" and therefore, soul or no soul, they incur no punishment, at least on account of original sin.

Thus, either they have no soul, and so they ain't going nowhere; or they have a soul uninfected by anything inherited from Adam, because they're not descended from him by generation.
 
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jaydeehess said:
The implication is either that these aliens, like the baser animals do not have a soul and thus cannot be 'saved' and thus cannot enter heaven; or they have a soul but Jesus died only for human souls thus they cannot be saved and thus not only cannot enter heaven but also will go to the residence of unsaved souls, hell.
However the Bible does not taint animals with Adam's sin, therefore the former, that these are soul-less beings, cannot be what Ham believes. If therefore, they are in posssession of a soul, tainted by Adam's sin, but unsaved and therefore still under the penalty for Adam's sin, they are going to hell.

Either produce a contrary argument or accept this one.
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No thanks, I will continue to point out that no evidence has been produced to support the claim that Ham believes this. No quotes from Ham saying aliens are going to hell. No biblical quotes saying it. You've simply stated what you believe Ham's reasoning 'must' be. I'm not prepared to accept that as an argument without any evidence to support it. Where has Ham/The Bible made any of these points?

For example, the point that the Bible doesn't taint animals with the consequences of Adam's sin doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

And here's my evidence for that claim
answersingenesis.org/genesis/garden-of-eden/did-the-serpent-originally-have-legs/



If you want evidence that Ham considers the final (non) resting place of unsaved souls, then you haven't paid him, or the Bible , much attention.
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So what? It's an educational forum. That's not argument against me requesting evidence.
 
Brainache said:
Maybe we should get Ken Ham to start raising money to fund a mission to the stars. He could be the saviour to whole planets full of souls. If he can get them to let Jeezus into their circulatory organs, he can save them from this damnation of theirs, can't he? Isn't that how it works?
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No civilized planet would let Ham even visit much less live there.
 
surrogate said:
Hell (now with Aliens!) seems like the smart choice to me.
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No-one really has any idea how many aliens there are - billions? trillions? Hell could have been accumulating aliens for millenia. It could be packed to the rafters with dead aliens by now, with no more room for the poor human sinners who assumed they had first dibs. Where will they go now?
 
sphenisc said:
No thanks, I will continue to point out that no evidence has been produced to support the claim that Ham believes this. No quotes from Ham saying aliens are going to hell. No biblical quotes saying it. You've simply stated what you believe Ham's reasoning 'must' be. I'm not prepared to accept that as an argument without any evidence to support it. Where has Ham/The Bible made any of these points?

For example, the point that the Bible doesn't taint animals with the consequences of Adam's sin doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

And here's my evidence for that claim
answersingenesis.org/genesis/garden-of-eden/did-the-serpent-originally-have-legs/





So what? It's an educational forum. That's not argument against me requesting evidence.
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Forget hell for a moment. Let's stipulate that the assumption of hell for the unsaved is conjectural. Have you ever run across any Biblical fundamentalist who believes that there are humans who are not descendants of Adam? Have you ever run across a believer in original sin who believes that Adam's sin applies to the non human?

I am not going to go all through Paul and the like again, but as I recall, Paul is pretty specific in stating that Adam's sin applies to humanity. Not cats, dogs, bonobos, whales, or conjectural non-Adamic space aliens. If you can find a biblical reference that attributes original sin to non human animals, you'd best find it and post it here. Maybe I missed it.

It is true, of course, that in consequence of the serpent's part in Adam's fall, the story says God took away the serpent's legs. But nowhere in that is there a suggestion that God condemned the serpent and its progeny forever to the human consequences of human sin, and foolish and nasty and silly as old Jehovah may be, we do not see any instance in which he taints creatures with sin for which there is no recourse, as there obviously would be for those who are not human enough to accept Christ, repent, and all the rest of that stuff.

It is true that according to the usual interpretation of Paul's christianity, humans do not inherit Adam's sin itself, but rather, Adam's sin introduced sinfulness to the world and with it guaranteed that all humans are inherently sinful. But if the space aliens are not descendants of Adam, a biblical literalist cannot call them human, and as such they cannot be presumed to partake of human traits, including sinfulness.

I say Ham is off no matter how you slice him.
 
sphenisc said:
No thanks, I will continue to point out that no evidence has been produced to support the claim that Ham believes this. No quotes from Ham saying aliens are going to hell. No biblical quotes saying it. You've simply stated what you believe Ham's reasoning 'must' be. I'm not prepared to accept that as an argument without any evidence to support it. Where has Ham/The Bible made any of these points?

For example, the point that the Bible doesn't taint animals with the consequences of Adam's sin doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

And here's my evidence for that claim
answersingenesis.org/genesis/garden-of-eden/did-the-serpent-originally-have-legs/





So what? It's an educational forum. That's not argument against me requesting evidence.
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Christians really should not make fun of themselves like this.
 
bruto said:
Forget hell for a moment. Let's stipulate that the assumption of hell for the unsaved is conjectural. Have you ever run across any Biblical fundamentalist who believes that there are humans who are not descendants of Adam? Have you ever run across a believer in original sin who believes that Adam's sin applies to the non human?

I am not going to go all through Paul and the like again, but as I recall, Paul is pretty specific in stating that Adam's sin applies to humanity. Not cats, dogs, bonobos, whales, or conjectural non-Adamic space aliens. If you can find a biblical reference that attributes original sin to non human animals, you'd best find it and post it here. Maybe I missed it.

It is true, of course, that in consequence of the serpent's part in Adam's fall, the story says God took away the serpent's legs. But nowhere in that is there a suggestion that God condemned the serpent and its progeny forever to the human consequences of human sin, and foolish and nasty and silly as old Jehovah may be, we do not see any instance in which he taints creatures with sin for which there is no recourse, as there obviously would be for those who are not human enough to accept Christ, repent, and all the rest of that stuff.

It is true that according to the usual interpretation of Paul's christianity, humans do not inherit Adam's sin itself, but rather, Adam's sin introduced sinfulness to the world and with it guaranteed that all humans are inherently sinful. But if the space aliens are not descendants of Adam, a biblical literalist cannot call them human, and as such they cannot be presumed to partake of human traits, including sinfulness.

I say Ham is off no matter how you slice him.
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Where is Ham off?
 
Well, if the "Doom" games are right, Aliens are not already in hell, but planning to open a portal to the Earth........
 
Gawdzilla said:
:cough: 6018 years. :rolleyes:
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OK, 6 millenia. :D My silly point remains - how many aliens have died over that period? Millions? Trillions? Three?

And another thing. In order to end up in hell do these aliens have to die on earth, or does it count the same everywhere in the universe? Or does each planet have its own hell?......so many questions..........
 
Steve said:
Or does each planet have its own hell?......so many questions..........
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Many, indeed. One has been, did Jesus visit all these planets, and if so has he been crucified in each of them to save their inhabitants from sin? This has seemed so bizarre to Christians that they don't want to think about other planets at all.
 
Steve said:
OK, 6 millenia. :D My silly point remains - how many aliens have died over that period? Millions? Trillions? Three?

And another thing. In order to end up in hell do these aliens have to die on earth, or does it count the same everywhere in the universe? Or does each planet have its own hell?......so many questions..........
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But why would God create being that were never going to know salvation? :p
 
Gawdzilla said:
But why would God create being that were never going to know salvation? :p
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Forget aliens, wouldn't that apply to the Neanderthals too? I mean, they seem to have had ritual burial, which indicates some kind of religion. But it happened before there could even be an Adam, much less a Jesus to save them. So God... what? Saw them being intelligent enough to worry about an afterlife, and take blind stabs at appeasing whatever sky daddy there may be, and He just couldn't give a crap about it for like 800,000 years straight?

Or to Homo Heidelbergensis too? Even without counting a side-branch like the Neanderthals, there are at the very least two species in our direct ancestry which were definitely sentient and as capable of speech as we are.

Or forget even those, let's take something whose existence isn't controversial even to the worst fundies: what about the humans born before Jesus? God, was... what? Telling Moses he's his best buddy, all the while knowing he'll fry him anyway, and doing it (as per Paul) just to leave cryptic messages to some OTHER guy he'll save later?
 
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