Ken Ham says Aliens will go to Hell

Looks like Ken Ham will need to update AIG's "Statement Of Faith." According to "Section 2: Basics":
The special creation of Adam (the first man) and Eve (the first woman), and their subsequent fall into sin, is the basis for the necessity of salvation for mankind..
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And "Section 3: Theology" says:
All mankind are sinners, inherently from Adam and individually (by choice), and are therefore subject to God’s wrath and condemnation.
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(My highlights)

Unless Ham is claiming that aliens fall under the heading of "mankind," he can't load them with an "inherent" burden of sin from which they need salvation*; if he wants them to carry that load, he has to give them an equal chance for salvation from it. He can't have his aliens and damn them too.

*For whatever meaning of "salvation," sphenisc- maybe it's just from "those caves and the ragged clothing! And the heat! My god, the heat!" I have no idea why you're quibbling so hard (and pointlessly) over the definition of a word that has one plain meaning when used by any Christian as fundamentalist as Ham (and you don't get any more fundamentalist than the literal belief that Earth and everything on it were created as is 6000 years ago).
 
Gawdzilla said:
And to prove this is endemic in the crazy *********** fundy foundation:
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Well, Comfort has since (semi) walked that back; according to his Facebook entry for July 26:
My apologies. I was wrong about gravity not existing in space. According to scientists at Yale university:
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But he can't leave it there:
I will therefore try and make it a little clearer for those folks who pretend that God doesn’t exist.
While there is invisible gravity in space (so much for “seeing is believing”), this massive earth hangs on nothing. It has no visible means of support--similar to the no means of support backing Darwinian evolution.
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He's trying to eat his cake and have it too. According to his original post, scientists' "discovered" that there was no gravity in space, therefore the Earth hangs upon nothing and Job was amazing. Now, it's "whoops, there is gravity in space, how about that?"- therefore the Earth hangs upon nothing and Job was amazing. I'd have been more impressed if Job had said "the Earth hangs upon nothing, but gravity keeps it in place."

You just cannot talk reasonably with someone who thinks that two completely contradictory arguments can still support his position. Of course, a belief in the invisible doesn't require consistent (or visible) support.
 
turingtest said:
Looks like Ken Ham will need to update AIG's "Statement Of Faith." According to "Section 2: Basics":

And "Section 3: Theology" says:


(My highlights)

Unless Ham is claiming that aliens fall under the heading of "mankind," he can't load them with an "inherent" burden of sin from which they need salvation*; if he wants them to carry that load, he has to give them an equal chance for salvation from it. He can't have his aliens and damn them too.

*For whatever meaning of "salvation," sphenisc- maybe it's just from "those caves and the ragged clothing! And the heat! My god, the heat!" I have no idea why you're quibbling so hard (and pointlessly) over the definition of a word that has one plain meaning when used by any Christian as fundamentalist as Ham (and you don't get any more fundamentalist than the literal belief that Earth and everything on it were created as is 6000 years ago).
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Ham is full of damn - he got that way from eating a Mama made Damn Ham sandwich every day in his youth. His mom liked for him to be careful eating so he wouldn't choke on any bad dogma in the sandwiches so she cut the sandwiches into really small bits and she used a fork to put one at a time in his mouth so he would be safe. Problem was, all the other kids kept calling him a mother ********** when they heard what his mom did. He never got over it and hated aliens and forks ever after!!!
 
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Bikewer said:
Wouldn't God set up a similar situation for all the races he created? Which then led me to speculate... What if some alien race or other had passed? Had not listened to the crawling zoompfrit or whatever and had not eaten the qualicashi fruit and was still living in idyllic splendor... Attuned to nature and all that?
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Maybe that's the solution to the Fermi Paradox. Perhaps we haven't heard from all the other intelligent beings in the universe, because so few would even have had the need to develop a technological civilisation with radio communication/space travel because they didn't disappoint God...
 
turingtest said:
Unless Ham is claiming that aliens fall under the heading of "mankind," he can't load them with an "inherent" burden of sin from which they need salvation*; if he wants them to carry that load, he has to give them an equal chance for salvation from it. He can't have his aliens and damn them too.
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And if he can't then he doesn't. Thus the thread title is wrong.
 
I must say I still don't see why this subject needs discussion, except perhaps for the sport.

A fundamental principle of the fundamentalists is that every human being is a descendant of Adam, the product of specific creation. Even fundy nutcases make a stumbling attempt at logic, and if every human being is a descendant of Adam, then if the aliens are not descendants of Adam they are not Human beings subject to his sin. Original sin applies only to human beings. No fundy I've met thinks cats and dogs and orangutans are going to go to hell if they do not profess Christ as their personal savior. Even if you apply fundy rules, Hamm is an idiot.
 
In a thread on Amazon involving religion and the nastiness and related of some claiming to be religious, I felt compelled to leave a little prayer for their soles: " I think I will stick with the FSM (may his noodly appendages touch us all equally and bring us his richness with ample sauce, meatballs and garlic bread)!!!"
 
Bikewer said:
Wouldn't God set up a similar situation for all the races he created? Which then led me to speculate... What if some alien race or other had passed? Had not listened to the crawling zoompfrit or whatever and had not eaten the qualicashi fruit and was still living in idyllic splendor... Attuned to nature and all that?
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We'll eventually stumble across them and then perhaps we'll be another "crawling zoompfrit" for them.
 
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turingtest said:
Well, Comfort has since (semi) walked that back; according to his Facebook entry for July 26:


But he can't leave it there:


He's trying to eat his cake and have it too. According to his original post, scientists' "discovered" that there was no gravity in space, therefore the Earth hangs upon nothing and Job was amazing. Now, it's "whoops, there is gravity in space, how about that?"- therefore the Earth hangs upon nothing and Job was amazing. I'd have been more impressed if Job had said "the Earth hangs upon nothing, but gravity keeps it in place."

You just cannot talk reasonably with someone who thinks that two completely contradictory arguments can still support his position. Of course, a belief in the invisible doesn't require consistent (or visible) support.
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so if I have this straight, invisble gravity>>>pshaw! invisible omnipotent creator>>> darn tootin!
 
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