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Continuation Part Nine: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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My new avatar bothers me a bit.

For there was a blonde hair found near where that semen stain,
err vaseline stain was found between Meredith's legs,
near her vagina.

There was also another blonde hair found in her dead,
upraised left hands dying grasp.


Some think this is a fiber, I don't.
Go yank a thread outta a quilt and see.
Its weight and gravity will make it fall downward.

That is a wavy blonde hair strand, IMHO.
AND it was conveniently lost by ILE.

2 blonde hairs,
1 found between her legs and 1 found in her hand,
and 2 semen stains,
1 found between her legs and 1 found below her left upraised hand.
Hmmmm...

If it was hair,
it sure did not come from Rudy Guede.

Wasn't Guede's buddy Kokomani a police informant?
Didn't his phone ping near Meredith's flat that evening.
Why did Kokomani show up to court dressed to hide?
What color was Hekuran Kokmomani's hair?
Weird...
 
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My new avatar bothers me a bit.

For there was a blonde hair found near where that semen stain,
err vaseline stain was found between Meredith's legs, near her vagina.

There was also another blonde hair found in her dead,
upraised left hands dying grasp.
[qimg]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/443/07yz.jpg[/qimg]

Some think this is a fiber, I don't.
Go yank a thread outta a quilt and see.
Its weight and gravity will make it fall downward.

That is a wavy blonde hair strand, IMHO.
AND it was conveniently lost by ILE.

If it was hair,
it sure did not come from Rudy Guede.

Wasn't Guede's buddy Kokomani a police informant?
Didn't his phone ping near Meredith's flat that evening.
Why did Kokomani show up to court dressed to hide?
What color was Hekuran Kokmomani's hair?
Weird...

How about a great white you might have photographed, we get em but very seldom.
 
The Italian Courts all seem to agree that Rudy Guede did this crime with others.
Maybe you folks should try to keep this in mind, just sayin', hahaha...

Kokomani was what, 33 when Miss Kercher was murdered?
Surely he, 10 years older than Poor Rudy,
would be much more experienced if he too was doing B+E or worse...
Do you all think that Rudy Guede broke into the lawyers office all alone?
Or did Rudy have an accomplice, someone, say, more experienced?
If so, WHO WAS HE?
 
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My new avatar bothers me a bit.

For there was a blonde hair found near where that semen stain,
err vaseline stain was found between Meredith's legs, near her vagina.

There was also another blonde hair found in her dead,
upraised left hands dying grasp.
[qimg]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/443/07yz.jpg[/qimg]

Some think this is a fiber, I don't.
Go yank a thread outta a quilt and see.
Its weight and gravity will make it fall downward.

That is a wavy blonde hair strand, IMHO.
AND it was conveniently lost by ILE.

If it was hair,
it sure did not come from Rudy Guede.

Wasn't Guede's buddy Kokomani a police informant?
Didn't his phone ping near Meredith's flat that evening.
Why did Kokomani show up to court dressed to hide?
What color was Hekuran Kokmomani's hair?
Weird...

No offense Surfer Joe, but I don't like your new avatar either but it beats it being Rudy.

I also don't think you can tell from whether it is a hair or a fiber without a close up examination. There are countless types of fibers, rayon, wool, silk, polyester and they come in all shapes, sizes and colors.
 
Go do some tests, AC!
Yanks a few different fibers out of your blankets or quilts.
Then yank a wavy blonde hair outta a friend or yourself,
compare the difference.

It's weird how ILE lost both the blonde hairs.
Also weird how we do not know the results of whatever was found underneath Meredith's fingernails.

Didn't Amanda's 1st Appeal ask that these be tested?
What does PM Mignini, Dr. Stefanoni, and ILE have to hide?
 
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Go do some tests, AC!
Yanks a few different fibers out of your blankets or quilts.
Then yank a wavy blonde hair outta a friend or yourself,
compare the difference.

It's weird how ILE lost both the blonde hairs.
Also weird how we do not know the results of whatever was found underneath Meredith's fingernails.

Didn't Amanda's 1st Appeal ask that these be tested?
What does PM Mignini, Dr. Stefanoni, and ILE have to hide?

On a related topic, when do we get the fibre analysis results? You know. Fibres. Admittedly, it's not a great start to jumble the victim's clothes up in a heap on her bed and toss bloodied garments she was actually wearing into the laundry basket and leave them for weeks nor to fail to find the murderess's clothes cunningly hidden on her bed but even so, once you do find these things, how about checking for fibres? What's the downside?
 
Hi AngloLawyer!
Late night for me, good mornin' to you!

I'm really curious to know where the 2nd blonde hair was found that Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni stated was near Miss Kercher's genitalia when seen in comparison to the presumed seminal fluid stain that she mentions in the crime scene video.

Seen here on the edge of the pillow case found underneath Miss Kercher,
which my avatar helps to show its position:


Also,
I'd really like to know whatever was found underneath Miss Kercher's fingernails,
for it seems she might have fought back just a bit, if those are indeed hairs, not fibers...
 
What's that word they use for assuming their conclusion? Starts with a 'P?' Curatolo's testimony is supposed to establish that Raffaele and Amanda weren't at Raffaele's apartment but were instead in the vicinity of the cottage. It seems to me they 'establish' that Curatolo must be correct despite him describing another night because of something that must be true (it was the night before the body was discovered) which anyone could say and has no value corroborating his story and by determining that Raffaele and Amanda weren't there on Halloween.



Any court that allows the prosecutor to drudge up someone to testify in their third murder trial and then ramble on describing a completely different night but accepts what is useful to the prosecution case and disregards everything that would falsify the story or destroy the prosecution case is farcical. They could convict anyone of anything under those rules.
.
LOL. They do Kao. They do!

Cody
.
 
Go do some tests, AC!
Yanks a few different fibers out of your blankets or quilts.
Then yank a wavy blonde hair outta a friend or yourself,
compare the difference.

It's weird how ILE lost both the blonde hairs.
Also weird how we do not know the results of whatever was found underneath Meredith's fingernails.

Didn't Amanda's 1st Appeal ask that these be tested?
What does PM Mignini, Dr. Stefanoni, and ILE have to hide?

There is nothing scientific about that my friend. That is anecdotal at best. I'm not saying it isn't a hair, but I don't think you can tell by the photos. There are far too many combinations and varieties of fibers to to know from that photo. I'd bet there are fibers that could easily fool you. But they aren't going to fool a good forensic tech looking it under a microscope.
 
So what's your breakthrough moment?

I am still waiting for one. I only really started studying this case when it appeared on this very forum, and began with a presumption of innocence that has never been overcome (I believe I posted on the very first page of the first thread). At first the thread here was full of pro-guilt posters telling me over and over again that there was "a mountain of evidence" and every time I asked for details of it I was told that they would not be "spoon-feeding" me. I found this argument unconvincing, and I haven't yet been convinced by any other arguments presented by the pro-guilt side.

But you never know, maybe they'll come up with something?
 
Do keep up, old chap

They didn't 'protect' the African immigrant, they arrested him off confused nonsense gotten from a foreign exchange student in the middle of the night that she told them the same day she wouldn't testify to. They made a big display of themselves and then gave the court a 'crime theory' far past what little 'evidence' they had against them which caused a great deal of media attention due to salacious but entirely fabricated sexual rite/game, to the detriment of his reputation. When about twenty people came forth to alibi him they refused on specious grounds for two weeks despite the fact the statement they had against him had been recanted again and again.



No one has an alibi if you can just arrest the alibi too and move the murder to any time that night.


Nope - the african emigrant referred to was RG.
The guy who, according to various groupies (and S Moore - remember him) was was a police informant who had to be protected to cover up something or other thus setting in motion the vast conspiracy against RS & AK !
The protection in this case amounting to giving him life\30 at his 1st trial.

C'mon you must have heard of him ? and this conspiracy ??

Not PL, the african emigrant falsely accused by AK at the drop of a hat alibi.

Is it that easy to confuse one black guy with another - apparently it is.
 
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I am still waiting for one. I only really started studying this case when it appeared on this very forum, and began with a presumption of innocence that has never been overcome (I believe I posted on the very first page of the first thread). At first the thread here was full of pro-guilt posters telling me over and over again that there was "a mountain of evidence" and every time I asked for details of it I was told that they would not be "spoon-feeding" me. I found this argument unconvincing, and I haven't yet been convinced by any other arguments presented by the pro-guilt side.

But you never know, maybe they'll come up with something?


Like all right thinkers, I too started with a presumption of innocence, then looked at where the evidence (and inferences derived from the evidence) took me. As I've stated many times here before, when I read "Darkness Descending" (which I picked up quite by chance on a "buy one get one free" offer in WHSmith) I formed an opinion in favour of guilt. I had assumed - incorrectly as it turns out - that every "fact" mentioned in that book was correct and reliable, since the book presented itself in that way.

Specifically, I found it near-impossible to reconcile non-guilt with a) the "fact" that Sollecito had called his sister then the Carabinieri only after the Postal Police had arrived at the cottage, and that Knox had called her mother in that time period also, and that neither had mentioned that a branch of the police were already present; b) the "fact" that Sollecito's footprint in a blood/water mix was present on the bathmat in the small bathroom, which entirely contradicted Sollecito's claims of his movements and state of dress in the cottage at any time after the murder had occurred; c) the "fact" that Quintavalle reliably saw Knox at around 8am on the morning after the murder, when Knox claimed to have been asleep in Sollecito's apartment at that time; and d) the "facts" that Kercher's DNA was reliably present on Sollecito's kitchen knife, and that Sollecito's DNA was reliably present on Kercher's bra clasp in her room.

Incidentally, even on the account given in "Darkness Descending" I found Curatolo's testimony to be entirely unreliable and worthless, and I also found Knox's infamous "confession/accusation" to be troubling and reasonably explainable as improperly coerced. Indeed, it was to find out more information on this latter issue, as well as to find out more about the whole case, that I sought out a forum that was discussing the case online. Naturally, Google immediately pointed me to pmf.org, so there I went. I very quickly became surprised and disappointed by the mindless zealotry on display, coupled with a really nasty underlying vindictiveness and antagonism being shown towards Knox (in particular) and Sollecito.

And I discovered wooly, closed-minded thinking in abundance, a huge groupthink problem, and an active willingness - fully supported, indulged and even added to by the moderators! - to gang up and attack newcomers and/or anyone who challenged their "agreed" dogma about the case. It truly, honestly was an eye-opener for me. I'd never engaged in any form of online debate before, and I had (naively) assumed that intelligent, well-reasoned debate would win through. Instead, I quickly found that places like .org were mainly serving as repositories for damaged, bitter people who seemed to use the site as some sort of alter-ego outlet for their anger at things that were going on in their real-world lives. And nearly all of them were either ignorant/stupid or had allowed themselves to be deeply ensnared in confirmation bias and groupthink.

Anyway........ to cut a long story short, I decided to inform myself far more fully about the case. I found that DD had massively misrepresented many of the key facts in the case, including all of those that had initially led me to a belief in Knox's/Sollecito's guilt. So for me, the "Aha!" moments came when I realised that it was almost certain that the Knox/Sollecito phone calls came before the Postal Police arrived, that the police's analysis of the bathmat partial print was utterly bogus and was totally unreliable, that Quintavalle's testimony was fundamentally flawed, and that all the DNA/evidence was entirely unreliable and was the product of the completely inept (at best...) work/lab practices of Stefanoni and her "crack" team of CSIs.
 
Nope - the african emigrant referred to was RG.
The guy who, according to various groupies (and S Moore - remember him) was was a police informant who had to be protected to cover up something or other thus setting in motion the vast conspiracy against RS & AK !
The protection in this case amounting to giving him life\30 at his 1st trial.

C'mon you must have heard of him ? and this conspiracy ??

Not PL, the african emigrant falsely accused by AK at the drop of a hat alibi.

Is it that easy to confuse one black guy with another - apparently it is.
Platonov - the case presents a choice between your 'vast' conspiracy on one hand and an absurdly improbable one on the other. Three people of limited to zero acquaintance combine together to murder a fourth for no reason, two of them fake the MO of the third and selectively clean up leaving only his traces but the architect accuses a provably innocent fourth*.

My working hypothesis, which I won't bore you with as you know it already, has yet to be falsified by anything. True, it does involve corrupt police, prosecutor and scientist but the evidence against all of them is there (lies, evidence destruction/manipulation, motive etc). It is unreasonable, not to say ridiculous, to reject any explanation of anything merely because a conspiracy may be involved. 9-11 was a conspiracy whichever way you slice it. People do conspire and there is clear evidence of conspiracy in this case.



* since we are required to attribute total recall to Amanda it must follow she knew very well what Lumumba's text had really said when telling the cops they had fixed a meeting and cannot have assumed his message to her would not have been found on his phone, destroying her story at once. Why, in the calm, non-threatening atmosphere, in which refreshments were on offer to a well-rested, competent Italian speaker, did she 'buckle' and tell them a story that, by amazing coincidence, they already knew to be true?
 
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This has always been my favorite aspect of pro-guilt reasoning, NotEvenWrong. All of their arguments rest on this approach, "We believe Amanda and use her words against her when she says she is guilty. We don't believe her and ignore her words when she says she is innocent."


Well, to be fair, what I think is happening is along the following line of reasoning:

"I can see how/why a guilty person might claim to be uninvolved in the crime, but I cannot see how/why an innocent person might claim to be involved in the crime".

Superficially, this reasoning seems to be fair and right: it stands to reason why guilty people would want to falsely claim to be uninvolved. Heck, at a more basic level, most people have intimate personal experience of this type of behaviour ("No it wasn't me who knocked over that expensive vase, mummy!"). And similarly, it's superficially easy to believe that an innocent person would/could never falsely "own up" to doing something that they hadn't actually done.

And if one applies this reasoning to Knox, then it superficially appears to be entirely logical and defensible to discount all of Knox's claims of innocence as the attempts of a guilty person to "get away with it", while at the same time (using the "why would an innocent person falsely claim involvement?" rationale) conclude that anything Knox said regarding involvement must be accurate and reliable.

But of course this reasoning is demonstrably wrong. Sometimes (and it's been proven on many occasions in other cases) factually-innocent people do make self-incriminating statements. And all of the circumstances surrounding Knox's statements of the 5th/6th November 2007 do indeed point strongly towards the conclusion that they were false statements, made under coercion and suggestion by the police.
 
Eureka

Platonov - the case presents a choice between your 'vast' conspiracy on one hand and an absurdly improbable one on the other. Three people of limited to zero acquaintance combine together to murder a fourth for no reason, two of them fake the MO of the third and selectively clean up leaving only his traces but the architect accuses a provably innocent fourth*.

My working hypothesis, which I won't bore you with as you know it already, has yet to be falsified by anything. True, it does involve corrupt police, prosecutor and scientist but the evidence against all of them is there (lies, evidence destruction/manipulation, motive etc). It is unreasonable, not to say ridiculous, to reject any explanation of anything merely because a conspiracy may be involved. 9-11 was a conspiracy whichever way you slice it. People do conspire and there is clear evidence of conspiracy in this case.



* since we are required to attribute total recall to Amanda it must follow she knew very well what Lumumba's text had really said when telling the cops they had fixed a meeting and cannot have assumed his message to her would not have been found on his phone, destroying her story at once. Why, in the calm, non-threatening atmosphere, in which refreshments were on offer to a well-rested, competent Italian speaker, did she 'buckle' and tell them a story that, by amazing coincidence, they already knew to be true?


No point in going over this Nov 5th stuff again -Kaosium can point you to my many posts on the issue :)

However your post brings to mind an association I have long been amused and informed by.

The analogue between the truthers fixation with Silversteins "pull it " and the groupies excitement over the cops line from the Nov 6th or 7th post arrest Press conf.

The conspiracy revealed by a careless remark from one of the conspirators :eek:
 
They didn't 'protect' the African immigrant, they arrested him off confused nonsense gotten from a foreign exchange student in the middle of the night that she told them the same day she wouldn't testify to. They made a big display of themselves and then gave the court a 'crime theory' far past what little 'evidence' they had against them which caused a great deal of media attention due to salacious but entirely fabricated sexual rite/game, to the detriment of his reputation. When about twenty people came forth to alibi him they refused on specious grounds for two weeks despite the fact the statement they had against him had been recanted again and again.

No one has an alibi if you can just arrest the alibi too and move the murder to any time that night.

Speaking of how the police work with alibis, when the police needed a witness to claim Lumumba's bar was closed that night they went out and found a witness who would say the bar was closed that night. You don't suppose they fed him the storyline, do you? :rolleyes:
 
I'm trying to create a calendar following Amanda and where she was hour by hour...as close as possible and also follow Rudy from October 21 the day that Rudy met Amanda. From what I can see, there was very little opportunity for Amanda to get to know Rudy. We know that they never called, texted or email each other ever. Something hard to believe with kids of their generation. The idea that Rudy was her dealer, is really absurd.

If anyone has done anything like this or can point me in the right direction.. I'd appreciate it.
 
More conspiracy fodder please

No point in going over this Nov 5th stuff again -Kaosium can point you to my many posts on the issue :)

However your post brings to mind an association I have long been amused and informed by.

The analogue between the truthers fixation with Silversteins "pull it " and the groupies excitement over the cops line from the Nov 6th or 7th post arrest Press conf.
The conspiracy revealed by a careless remark from one of the conspirators :eek:

What was the "cop's line" you are referring to? There were so many gems.
 
No point in going over this Nov 5th stuff again -Kaosium can point you to my many posts on the issue :)

However your post brings to mind an association I have long been amused and informed by.

The analogue between the truthers fixation with Silversteins "pull it " and the groupies excitement over the cops line from the Nov 6th or 7th post arrest Press conf.

The conspiracy revealed by a careless remark from one of the conspirators :eek:

My point was, in case you missed it, that 9-11 was a conspiracy even if you attribute the whole thing to Al Qaeda with no dark government forces involved. My real point is that to believe the word 'conspiracy' has magical properties as you seem to do (and you are in good company here at JREF - I have no idea how such a state of affairs came to pass) is misconceived.
 
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