• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Jim Fetzer & Conspiracies

I thought that JREF imposes at least some minimal ethical standards. It is now looking to me as though I am wrong.

Your problem is you are not accustomed to posting where people don't just believe you.

We don't believe you and we need more proof then just you saying it's so. You came here. You know we don't believe you.

Why did you join here? Did you think we would suddenly just start accepting opinion as proof?

:boggled:
 
Is this the best JREFers can do? Gang up on someone, misrepresent his views and savage him when he's not around? Then, when by a fluke he shows up, at all costs, IGNORE HIS ARGUMENTS AND HIS EVIDENCE. That's the JREF way!

the best JREFers can do
Ask for evidence? lol, you don't have any to back your claims.


Gang up on someone
You are one person spreading lies, most at JREF know you are evidence free. Hardly ganging up on you, you spread false junk about 911, everyone knows it.


IGNORE HIS ARGUMENTS AND HIS EVIDENCE
Yelling about having evidence, does not make your lack of evidence invisible. You have zero evidence for your claims on 911. Like most 911 truth followers you think your opinions are evidence, you think hearsay is evidence, you thing big talk is evidence. RADAR is evidence.


You come with woo, no evidence, and get upset your lies are exposed as fraud. Holograms, really - are you a beam weapon 911 truth follower too; or is was it a nuke with no BOOM.
 
This is absurd. I give documents from the BTS showing that Flights 11 and 77 were not even scheduled to fly that day. I present FAA Registration Records showing that the planes used for Flight 93 and 175 were not "de-registered" or formally taken out of service until 28 September 2005. Which raise the obvious questions, "How can planes that were not in the air have crashed on 9/11?" and "How can planes that crashed on 9/11 have still been in the air four years later?"

Can you prove those are not paperwork errors? Specifically the planes that were not de-registered? Is there ANY prof they still flew? Or are you more likely just blowing smoke because some paperwork wasn't filed? Good for humor though!
 
Last edited:
Each of them answers that question. It is obvious to me that you are lying:
Careful. Such accusations of lying must be well supported here lest the mods take an interest. Do you have such support? Or do you simply resort to such lame accusations as a last bastion?

(1) No one I know has read (or watched) all of them, certainly not you;
Well, those are not very good at all. Why would you expect anyone to waste their time on them? Why would you be surprised that they would not?

(2) Only someone who was keenly interested in my work would do that;
Your "work" is uninteresting. Why are you surprised that only a fringe is interested?

(3) You are obviously NOT keenly interested in my work and are lying;
Your work is still uninteresting. Careful with the accusations. Those are not well received here unless you have firm evidence.

(4) You said I would use "numbers", but I don't use any numbers; hence,
Sorry? It is your claim that you not only cannot back up your claims, but you further have no need to do so? Good luck with that.

(5) You are faking it--why precisely i do not know, but you are LYING.
Baseless accusation again. Surely you are not attempting suicide by mod to get the "banned at JREF" badge of dishonour? Surely you have more to show than that tawdry ploy?

I this your modus operandi? Just fake it and pretend you are serious?
Works for you, doesn't it?

Since you are entirely happy to introduce anything and everything, go ahead and defend your endorsement of the deceased crackpot Jack White, who, in court, stated he did not know what photogrammetry was.
 
You have already been exposed JayUtah

As...?

(1) they are all perfectly framed...

Except, of course, for the ones that aren't, and aren't commonly reproduced in the editorial literature. http://www.clavius.org/photoqual.html

when the camera were mounted on the front of the space suits and almost impossible to focus;

I have used an Apollo-modified Hasselblad 500/EL. Have you? Yes or no.

Of course any competent photographer knows about zone focusing and depth of field. Helpfully, the Zeiss Biogon lenses provided detents for the common focusing zones. I had no problem correctly framing and focusing with that lens, and I was operating at f/5.6 while the Apollo astronauts typically used f-stops in the f/8 to f/16 range.

there are many with shadows in different directions, indicating more than one source of light, when on the Moon, there was only the Sun

This claim was refuted years ago, e.g., http://www.clavius.org/analyze.html

I know for a fact that professional photographer Craig Lamson showed you the proper way to analyze shadow vanishing-points in photographs. None of the so-called analysis conducted by self-proclaimed photographic analysts purporting to show inconsistent lighting have been conducted using valid techniques; they are all the product of ad hoc methods invented on the fly by their proponents and easily shown to be based on incorrect assumptions and physical properties, e.g.

http://www.clavius.org/shad15.html
http://www.clavius.org/trrnshdow.html

some show the Moon Rover with no tracks...

Refuted at length many years ago. http://www.clavius.org/rover2.html

...indicating that it had been lifted into place using a crane, which left no tracks for its getting there

No, this is just conjecture on your part. You infer that the rovers were lifted into place using a crane. You have no evidence that this method was employed. You simply invent it as one unproven hypothetical method for why you cannot see rover tracks in some photos.

the background are just as in focus as the foreground, indicating that it was shot using "front screen" projection, as experts have observed.

Which experts, exactly? Name them explicitly. Which photographs, exactly? Cite them by their ASXX-XX-XXXX format reference numbers.

For most examples commonly cited by others, this is just a special case of ignorance regarding depth of field and focusing zones. The ignorance of non-experts is not a valid basis for judgment.

There are excellent sources on all of this. I list some on assassinationscience.

You simply endorse claims made by other non-experts without any indication that you have applied any form of critical thinking toward them, any competent literature search regarding existing refutations, or any attempt on your part to test or replicate them to ascertain whether they are valid. In most cases the claims you endorse were refuted as long as 15 years ago. Simply regurgitating old claims will not do.

[ETA: At the moderators' discretion, I would be happy to have this separated into its own thread if appropriate]
 
Last edited:
For convenience, the two links in my .sig lead to photographs and moon rocks. If Mr. Fetzer would like to discuss the Apollo program in a fact based manner those links will be helpful for all of us.
 
For convenience, the two links in my .sig lead to photographs and moon rocks. If Mr. Fetzer would like to discuss the Apollo program in a fact based manner those links will be helpful for all of us.

Meh. He won't do that. He knows he will get toasted. He is ultimately afraid. Afraid to be exposed.
 
I don't know this guy as I've never been on the "education" forum or other sites where it appears others of you have already met him. I'm willing to give him a clean slate on Apollo and address the claims he makes here and here alone.

As for 9/11, is he really a Nope Lamer? It seems so from his posts thus far. I didn't think anyone over the age of 9 actually bought that notion.
 
Your problem is you are not accustomed to posting where people don't just believe you.

We don't believe you and we need more proof then just you saying it's so. You came here. You know we don't believe you.

Why did you join here? Did you think we would suddenly just start accepting opinion as proof?

:boggled:

He joined a FB group I was a member of, and ran into the same issue. There he got away with calling us shills and disinfo before he left.
 
No, this is just conjecture on your part. You infer that the rovers were lifted into place using a crane. You have no evidence that this method was employed. You simply invent it as one unproven hypothetical method for why you cannot see rover tracks in some photos.

If the landings were faked, why would a crane be necessary to position the rover? Why not just drive the vehicle into position, and leave the correct tracks every time? Why do these fools think a crane was necessary?
 
If the landings were faked, why would a crane be necessary to position the rover? Why not just drive the vehicle into position, and leave the correct tracks every time? Why do these fools think a crane was necessary?

Retroactive Continuity? I've never figured that one out, especially since in nearly every "no tracks" pics there are tire tracks visible outside the immediate periphery of the rover and the ground right around the rover is clearly disturbed by foot traffic.
 
If the landings were faked, why would a crane be necessary to position the rover?

It wouldn't.

Why not just drive the vehicle into position, and leave the correct tracks every time?

That's what they did in From the Earth To the Moon. It's a wheeled object, whether prop or not. To do anything other than roll it into place is unwieldy and problematic. And the stagehands wore Apollo booties so that they wouldn't leave any tracks except astronaut tracks. What Hollywood actually does is a very far cry from what ignorant conspiracy theorists imagine must go on. It's much simpler and much more effective, as you'd expect.

Why do these fools think a crane was necessary?

Pure inference. It "has" to be done that way because they need a hypothesis that both (a) involves a hoax and (b) results in "missing" rover tracks. They never consider that their expectation to see rover tracks in every photograph is what's wrong. Many optical factors are known to affect whether footprints and tracks will be visible in any particular photograph. Further, we know from "before" and "after" shots of various stopover stations that in some of the photographs the wheel tracks leading to the rover's position were largely obliterated by the footprints of the astronauts working around the rover.
 
Since you are full of lies, hearsay, dumbed down lies, and big fat silly delusional lies. You better step up and try harder to produce evidence, so far all you have is BS, nonsense, more BS, and dumber nonsense.

Why do you lie about 911? Cause you can

How can you post that many sources of lies and idiotic claptrap only failed people like the Boston bombers would believe out of ignorance.

Big claims, no evidence. If you think I am issuing false statements for which I have no proof, then show us: identify what I say and why I say it, then explain what I have wrong and how you know. Otherwise, this is simply meaningless.
 
Appears that horse has left that barn at full gallop.

This is silly. It is the 4th of July weekend. We are doing family things. I was on when my laptop ran out. Since I have recharged it. But the quality of comments here really leaves me wondering whether this is not a complete waste of time.
 
Also, the wire mesh wheels picked up a volume of regolith that would dump out when wheel rpm dropped. This obliterated a substantial amount of each track right at the end. It's a clearly visible effect in the rover film footage.
 
This is silly. It is the 4th of July weekend. We are doing family things. I was on when my laptop ran out. Since I have recharged it. But the quality of comments here really leaves me wondering whether this is not a complete waste of time.

Will you be responding to any of the responses to your unsupported claims or are WE wasting our time? I'll have an honest conversation with you if you bother.
 
It wouldn't.

That's what they did in From the Earth To the Moon. It's a wheeled object, whether prop or not. To do anything other than roll it into place is unwieldy and problematic. And the stagehands wore Apollo booties so that they wouldn't leave any tracks except astronaut tracks. What Hollywood actually does is a very far cry from what ignorant conspiracy theorists imagine must go on. It's much simpler and much more effective, as you'd expect.

Pure inference. It "has" to be done that way because they need a hypothesis that both (a) involves a hoax and (b) results in "missing" rover tracks. They never consider that their expectation to see rover tracks in every photograph is what's wrong. Many optical factors are known to affect whether footprints and tracks will be visible in any particular photograph. Further, we know from "before" and "after" shots of various stopover stations that in some of the photographs the wheel tracks leading to the rover's position were largely obliterated by the footprints of the astronauts working around the rover.

Good for you, trustbutverify. There are many problems with the whole Moon landing scenario. I must have posted as least 15 times by now. See my interview with Jay Weidner on "The Real Deal", radiofetzer.blogspot.com; or the studies of the Moon landing by Winston Wu, which you can find on the internet; or listen to my appearance with Sterling Harwood on the Moon landing hoax, http://kliv.gotdns.com/kliv/paid/2013_05_02_SpirtToSpirt.mp3
 
That's what they did in From the Earth To the Moon. It's a wheeled object, whether prop or not. To do anything other than roll it into place is unwieldy and problematic. And the stagehands wore Apollo booties so that they wouldn't leave any tracks except astronaut tracks. What Hollywood actually does is a very far cry from what ignorant conspiracy theorists imagine must go on. It's much simpler and much more effective, as you'd expect.

And I've seen film of the rover being driven, so why all of a sudden can't it be driven for still photographs? Not to mention the fact that if you're going to hire the most detail obsessed filmmaker in the history of cinema to perform an elaborate hoax, wouldn't you be entitled to the expectation of a reasonable degree of accuracy?

Or was Kubrick using a crane to tip off future anti-Semitic "professors"?
 
He joined a FB group I was a member of, and ran into the same issue. There he got away with calling us shills and disinfo before he left.

A "FB group"? Which one? I have probably published an article about it, if there was enough of substance to bother with. Another allegation with no evidence.
 

Back
Top Bottom