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Dowsing by a Skeptic

SaskMick said:
It's well worth the risk:)
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Oh, you wild rebel, you!

I'm not sure which peanut gallery you think you're playing to, but it's not working here. Thus far, you've proved precisely nothing. And that may be a generous assessment because I'm leaving out the negatives.

Whether you recognize them are not, there are a large handful of ways for your five-bucket-experiment to be played.
> You painted the inside of the "one of five identical buckets". I've got identical garbage cans in my coffee shop - four of them. I can recognize them when empty and upside down or rightside up, by location in the shop. How? They're outwardly identical, but there are tiny telltale signs that I know from handling them a few times a week for two years.
> Paint has a residual smell for up to several days.
> Your wife knows where the "winner" is. By subconscious actions you could be using her as your guide dog. Quickening of pulse, the way she stands, dilation of pupils.

Until you agree to perform these feats in a properly administered test conducted by neutral observers and double-blinded, all you're presenting is anecdotes. And while you're at it, invite your UK dowsing buddies to come along and help "rub our noses" in it. No one there disproved the ideomotor effect. They gave you their biased opinions and you lapped them up.

IMHO, you are not looking to prove or disprove your dowsing ability or even the viability of dowsing. You simply want to confirm the "special snowflake" status you think you now enjoy.

Do we have any members with connections at CFI? Perhaps Mick would agree to a proper double blinded test with them? They're in both Saskatoon and Regina. http://centreforinquiry.ca/tag/saskatchewan/

What say you, Mick? This wouldn't require you to travel across the continent. Maybe CFI Saskatoon would do it as a fund-raiser.
 
SaskMick said:
It's well worth the risk:)
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Oddly enough, one usually does not get extra points for difficultly, not in day to day life. So doing things the easier way has become more sensible to me as I have gotten older. And has spared me a bumped nose.
 
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SaskMick said:
If I ask is this a good time and I get a negative response and still go ahead, I would expect a complete failure.

I once did a simple test with my wife holding a coin in a clenched fist with her arms held apart, I got the correct hand continuously. The next morning we tried it again after being given a no to the shall I do it again question. I got a positive from both clenched fists.:)

PS, If it's the real deal I am certain I will get the go ahead every time, but it's as if I am being told the tests are kind of pointless when I already know I can do it. And it's a valid point.

No doubt the above will not make the members here very happy, but then what would ? Next thing they will be asking me to check the inside of the bucket to make sure I got the right one !
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I think we have already explained the possible problems with this "test." Can I assume that when you ask the rods, you mean you are actually asking the relevant part of your brain, since you mentioned the material in the rods is not itself particularly special?
 
Remember, Mick, in various articles I've linked to earlier (by Randi, or in the Swift periodical) in 'formal' tests involving dowsers effectively all honestly believed they could dowse and would have a 100% success rate, and were happy to sign papers saying so and that they were happy with the test design beforehand - but of course nobody has ever done significantly better than chance.

It's entirely possible that you believe you can dowse too (the alternative being you're playing some kind of pointless long-con, I suppose*) and you aren't aware of the various 'tricks' that continue to give you success in your tests. The point of asking for proper tests isn't just us trying to feel smug and go back to pretending dowsing isn't real, it's to eliminate all the false positives, including things you're not even aware of and have no active control over.

*The third alternative is of course that dowsing is real, but, frankly, I don't at all believe that's true. Sorry.
 
It's not even really a thread anymore, is it? Nobody here is interested in exploring a supposed ability to dowse. Nobody is learning the difference between confirmation bias and proper testing. There's just no point to it.
 
Loss Leader said:
It's not even really a thread anymore, is it? Nobody here is interested in exploring a supposed ability to dowse. Nobody is learning the difference between confirmation bias and proper testing. There's just no point to it.
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This guy gets it.

Also NY high five
 
[Casually pops in to see if this thread seems remotely likely to go anywhere productive…]

SaskMick said:
If I ask is this a good time and I get a negative response and still go ahead, I would expect a complete failure.
Click to expand...


[Right then. Nevermind.]
 
SaskMick said:
The buckets are all identical black ( non see through ) five gallon buckets.

I sprayed the inside of one and placed it upside down amongst the others when my wife was not present. My wife later put one bucket over the other while I got my rods from the truck, and placed them at about 30 feet apart in a line. I did not know which bucket had been marked inside and neither did my wife. I dowsed from about 50-60 feet away from the buckets on different days. I have asked if it was OK to do it again since but have been told no. I will ask again later.

All that mattered to me was that neither myself or my wife knew which bucket was marked, that is why I did not get my wife to place something underneath one of the buckets.

The test was for my benefit alone. I could not be happier:D
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Foolmewunz said:
[ . . . ]

Whether you recognize them are not, there are a large handful of ways for your five-bucket-experiment to be played.
> You painted the inside of the "one of five identical buckets". I've got identical garbage cans in my coffee shop - four of them. I can recognize them when empty and upside down or rightside up, by location in the shop. How? They're outwardly identical, but there are tiny telltale signs that I know from handling them a few times a week for two years.
> Paint has a residual smell for up to several days.
> Your wife knows where the "winner" is. By subconscious actions you could be using her as your guide dog. Quickening of pulse, the way she stands, dilation of pupils.

Until you agree to perform these feats in a properly administered test conducted by neutral observers and double-blinded, all you're presenting is anecdotes. And while you're at it, invite your UK dowsing buddies to come along and help "rub our noses" in it. No one there disproved the ideomotor effect. They gave you their biased opinions and you lapped them up.

IMHO, you are not looking to prove or disprove your dowsing ability or even the viability of dowsing. You simply want to confirm the "special snowflake" status you think you now enjoy.

Do we have any members with connections at CFI? Perhaps Mick would agree to a proper double blinded test with them? They're in both Saskatoon and Regina. http://centreforinquiry.ca/tag/saskatchewan/

What say you, Mick? This wouldn't require you to travel across the continent. Maybe CFI Saskatoon would do it as a fund-raiser.
Click to expand...

Good ideas, there, FMW.
How about it, Mick, are you willing to do a double blinded test of your dowsing abilities?



uvar said:
[ . . . ]The point of asking for proper tests isn't just us trying to feel smug and go back to pretending dowsing isn't real, it's to eliminate all the false positives, including things you're not even aware of and have no active control over.
Click to expand...

This.
 
Bit behind the game on this, but note a few threads earlier where Saskmick interacts with the British Society of Dowsers (BSD, where the BS bit says it all).

He's certainly in good company there! The President of the BSD, Graham Gardner IIRC, acted as a defence witness for James McCormick in his trial for fraud regarding the ADE651. As those of you who followed that story will know, McCormick was convicted and sentenced to 10 years in the nick. Funnily enough he did not appeal.

Another defence witness claimed to have dowsed for and found 'evidence' of an alien UFO having landed or crashed in Rendelsham Forest. I think that loon is also a member of the BSD. Apparently the court was somewhat amused when he gave his evidence.

Saskmick, if you truly believe but are not prepared to take any independent testing, just bog off as you are wasting your time and that of others here who have reasonably tried to help you discover the truth. If you are prepared to take a test under properly controlled conditions then do come back and let us know.
 
What really makes me wonder is why SaskMick chose to spray paint a bucket when he could just have placed a dowsable object under the bucket, as we have outlined here in extremely simple steps. He chose the more complicated way, and I can only assume it is because he does not feel comfortable with a procedure that leaves out all chances of bias.
 
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