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[Merged] General Criticism of Islam/Islamophobia Topics

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About that dream of marrying Aisha there is a very specific Authentic(considered authentic by muslims) that child Aisha was shown in Muhammad in his dreams.As usual the the thread is being spammed to obfuscate the issue.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 15
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.
 
About that dream of marrying Aisha there is a very specific Authentic(considered authentic by muslims) that child Aisha was shown in Muhammad in his dreams.As usual the the thread is being spammed to obfuscate the issue.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 15
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.


Couple more hadiths (All considered Authentic by muslims- Not the internet apologetics)

Sahih Bukhari 7.88
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Sahih Bukhari 8.151
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me.

Sahih Bukhari 5.234
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age
 
tsig said:
From the link:

The virulent, neocon-fueled Islamophobia that has plagued post-9/11 America has not only posed a threat to Muslims, it has had deadly consequences for people of other faiths, including Sikhs.

Well that's certainly a well balanced statement.:covereyes
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So you've no problem with the content then?
Belz... said:
There are many valid criticisms of Islam. Where did you see them in this thread ?
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This.
 
rtved said:
About that dream of marrying Aisha there is a very specific Authentic(considered authentic by muslims) that child Aisha was shown in Muhammad in his dreams.As usual the the thread is being spammed to obfuscate the issue.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 15
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.
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why didn't you quote the part with the specific age or at least indication that its about a child?
 
DC said:
why didn't you quote the part with the specific age or at least indication that its about a child?
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I didn't leave anything from the hadith

The first hadith says "I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him," ... indicating it is a child (carried in a silken cloth).

Another hadith I quoted gives age as 6 years when engaged (Or contracted) and 9 years when she was married or undergone sex (Or attempted sex) when she was 9 years old.


There are more hadiths from different sources.

Sahih Bukhari 5.236.
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3311
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.
 
rtved said:
I didn't leave anything from the hadith

The first hadith says "I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him," ... indicating it is a child (carried in a silken cloth).

Another hadith I quoted gives age as 6 years when engaged (Or contracted) and 9 years when she was married or undergone sex (Or attempted sex) when she was 9 years old.


There are more hadiths from different sources.

Sahih Bukhari 5.236.
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3311
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.
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in the first post you didn't , you did in a later post.
and a piece of cloth indicates a child? I have seen silken piece of cloths that sure were not made for children :)
 
what is the point of her age anyway? has this to do with the valid critizism?
what has this to do with Islam today?
what was the norm back then?
 
rtved said:
He says his religious decrees are not up for discussion.No muslim is willing to second guess muhammad in matters of religion.There is even a quranic verse 33:36 that says so.

It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.
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so all Muslims agree on religious matters then ?
 
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DC said:
in the first post you didn't , you did in a later post.
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Post no:784

Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

and a piece of cloth indicates a child? I have seen silken piece of cloths that sure were not made for children :)
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The dream description says Aisha was carried by an angel and covered with Silk cloth.

No, she was not dressed in silk cloth.The logical deduction would be a child.

hadith : I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),'
 
rtved said:
I didn't leave anything from the hadith

The first hadith says "I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him," ... indicating it is a child (carried in a silken cloth).
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That it "indicates a child" is your interpretation - the hadith doesn't mention age at all. And Bukhari 3895 describes the vision rather differently:

Narrated `Aisha:

That the Prophet said to her, "You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me). 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done."
 
DC said:
what is the point of her age anyway? has this to do with the valid critizism?
what has this to do with Islam today?
what was the norm back then?
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The point of her age is Mo was a child rapist.

The point today is why do people revere a child rapist.

Are you suggesting the norm back then was child rape? If so why isn't it the norm today?
 
gph said:
The point of her age is Mo was a child rapist.

The point today is why do people revere a child rapist.

Are you suggesting the norm back then was child rape? If so why isn't it the norm today?
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our history books are full of pedos.
in Europe there were cases of marriage at 7 years in Royal houses and that was much later than Mo.
why do people refer to a Slavery supporter? most people on this planet think he is a great moral guide despite his support for slavery.

that's religions.

moral standards change over time, that is why we don0t usualy see children being married.
 
Here's a good example of what's actual criticism, and what's not.

"The age of 'A'isha in Sunni canon at the time of her marriage to Muhammad is problematic today because of the issue of how some Muslims interpret it as permitting, even encouraging, the practice of child marriage" = criticism.

"Muhammad was a child rapist and Muslims revere a child rapist!" = not criticism.
 
rtved said:
Post no:784

Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).



The dream description says Aisha was carried by an angel and covered with Silk cloth.

No, she was not dressed in silk cloth.The logical deduction would be a child.

hadith : I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),'
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as I said, in your first post you quoted nothing that would indicate a child.
you did in later posts.
 
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DC said:
our history books are full of pedos.
in Europe there were cases of marriage at 7 years in Royal houses and that was much later than Mo.
why do people refer to a Slavery supporter? most people on this planet think he is a great moral guide despite his support for slavery.

that's religions.

moral standards change over time, that is why we don0t usualy see children being married.
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While I think the Jesus character was a pos too, and yes he condone slavery, he didn't actually own slaves that I'm aware of. Mo actually raped a little girl.

Todays morality doesn't change sexuality. Either it's the norm for men to be sexually attracted to little girls or it's not.

Sorry but I won't respond to anything for a few hours at least. This site is way too slow
 
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gph said:
While I think the Jesus character was a pos too, and yes he condone slavery, he didn't actually own slaves that I'm aware of. Mo actually raped a little girl.

Todays morality doesn't change sexuality. Either it's the norm for men to be sexually attracted to little girls or it's not.

Sorry but I won't respond to anything for a few hours at least. This site is way too slow
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erm morality has changed how such things are accepted in a society all the time.

for example in the roman empire and ancient Greece. Older man having a young boy for sex was rather accepted by society. not so much today.

Legal marriage ages have changes rather drastically all over the world. including Muslim countries.

btw: the speed issue has just stopped for me, now its running normal again.
 
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