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Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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This is true. Right now I'm flabbergasted with the Russ Faria case so I shouldn't just dismiss the insanity of Italy and this case. Never the less, I find myself dismissing what I see as illogical and it's probably illogical to even believe one second that this has anything to do with it.

My mind wants to smack people around for suggestions like what Xionix just presented, but maybe it's me that needs to get slapped around. After all, it certainly is taking me a while to lock onto the fact that this is an alternative universe.

Just remember that skeptics are not the norm. . . .Otherwise, there might be a lot less problems in the world ;)

The Russ Faria case is just as bad if not worse than the AK/RS case.
I want some way that cases such as this get dismissed before they even reach a jury.
 
Just remember that skeptics are not the norm. . . .Otherwise, there might be a lot less problems in the world ;)

The Russ Faria case is just as bad if not worse than the AK/RS case.
I want some way that cases such as this get dismissed before they even reach a jury.

There in fact is a way DF. A judge has the right to dismiss pretty much any case.
 
The question is why do the judges not dismiss cases like this?

I can't say for Italy but in the US there are lots of reasons. One, frequently the trial is the result of a Grand Jury indictment meaning "the people" ordered the trial and most judges in the US are hesitant to tell the people "no" . And there are lots of reasons for that..but probably mostly because of politics. Lots of judges are "elected" and even if they are not, it's easier and safer to leave it up to a jury. (basically sidestepping the tough decisions) Overall, the people are afraid and want the powers that be to "protect" them. This is why we have so many draconian sentences in the US and why we as a nation incarcerate more of its citizens then any other nation in the Western world.
 
I can't say for Italy but in the US there are lots of reasons. One, frequently the trial is the result of a Grand Jury indictment meaning "the people" ordered the trial and most judges in the US are hesitant to tell the people "no" . And there are lots of reasons for that..but probably mostly because of politics. Lots of judges are "elected" and even if they are not, it's easier and safer to leave it up to a jury. (basically sidestepping the tough decisions) Overall, the people are afraid and want the powers that be to "protect" them. This is why we have so many draconian sentences in the US and why we as a nation incarcerate more of its citizens then any other nation in the Western world.

The term sex offender is badly abused in our society for example.
An 18 year old and a 15 year old and the 18 year old gets registered as a sex molester as a result.
It both ruins their lives and makes real sex molesters almost hidden.
 
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I think in this case better to just say "I don't know?"


I'm only offering a counter case to the Grinder saying that he knows Rudy stole that money. Do we know if Rudy ever acted as if he had suddenly acquired €2000?
 
Not 'vague charges' Randy. He was convicted of possessing stolen goods, he has unsuccessfully appealed and is now on his way to Cassazione for round 3. That nobody on either side knew anything about this is quite a story. Now, I wonder who might have had an interest in keeping this from the eyes of Massei's court (while flooding the press with sexual innuendo about Knox, pink bathroom photos, lies about bleach receipts, stories about out of hand parties in Seattle etc)? Hmmm.


Hummm,

I don't think they did anything about the Milan robbery until something scared the officials into doing that. It comes well after his murder conviction.

In fact it is one flashing red signal that something is indeed rotten in Denmark....as in Oh crap they are talking about the Milan and Perugia police failing to do anything about Guede when they had had him firmly in their grasp. And then look...some days later he kills the girl. The police helped kill Meredith...not directly but due to sheer something??? Incompetence, laziness, he was an informant/associate? Something causes police to ignore a burglar caught red handed inside a school in possession of stolen items and tools of burglary AND armed with a deadly weapon.

Who lets a guy like this go? And how important is it to keep that arrest/semi detention quiet? In light of the facts that he then kills and rapes and robs. Some think these are Guedes first major crimes...I disagree.

He has old "war wounds". How does this stuff escape everyone? Old stab wounds IIRC. Fell on a knife I take it?

Yes the specific charges add to the mystery. Why ignore the totality of his crime? What police force does that?

Why the multiple years delay in this "fake" Milan trial? Good question Randy. Someone should look into that. It is key. :-)
 
Sadly, this is not good advice (although I strongly suspect that if I were in that situation, I would do exactly what you say and talk freely to police without a lawyer present). But there really are cases where innocent people who did this have ended up in jail.
At least Thoughtful from PMF is just that
 
Sadly, this is not good advice (although I strongly suspect that if I were in that situation, I would do exactly what you say and talk freely to police without a lawyer present). But there really are cases where innocent people who did this have ended up in jail.
At least Thoughtful from PMF is just that

She certainly has her blind spots (as Math on Trial revealed) but she is the closest thing the PGPs have to a reasonable poster. She also had the balls to defend her book at length and in the face of some hostile and occasionally unfair bowling at IIP, for which she gets a lot of credit from me.
 
She certainly has her blind spots (as Math on Trial revealed) but she is the closest thing the PGPs have to a reasonable poster. She also had the balls to defend her book at length and in the face of some hostile and occasionally unfair bowling at IIP, for which she gets a lot of credit from me.
In fairness I snipped that but my latter research suggests Fiona and Thoughtful could be helpful, clearly help is needed.
Popper's posts are bone chilling.
 
I'm only offering a counter case to the Grinder saying that he knows Rudy stole that money. Do we know if Rudy ever acted as if he had suddenly acquired €2000?

Was into any drugs harder than pot?
If so, it is pretty easy to spend 2000 Euros
 
She certainly has her blind spots (as Math on Trial revealed) but she is the closest thing the PGPs have to a reasonable poster. She also had the balls to defend her book at length and in the face of some hostile and occasionally unfair bowling at IIP, for which she gets a lot of credit from me.

That said, I'm sure that she also understand all of the data suppression issues and is avoiding the issue like its Fukishima. We know what that means.
 
So, the very first argument that Sollecito makes in his appeal is that it was error for Nencini to use "circumstantial evidence" to establish the "reliability" of otherwise unreliable scientific tests. In other words, scientific tests have to stand or fall on their own merit. I like it: they are daring the Italian Supreme Court to decide that science can be authenticated by speculation, and simultaneously suggesting that such a rule is illegal under the ECHR.

1) Scientific Evidence
The first question that requires a ruling of the United Sections regards the probative value of scientific evidence or circumstantial evidence, when it is in the presence of an investigation involving a high level of technical difficulty, but it was performed disregarding the recommendations of international human repertazione and interpretation data.
In this respect, it is necessary to assess whether this controversial figure, taken in violation of methods strongly recommended by the international scientific community (eg. Those issued by the International Society or no probative relief.
The profile in question assumes a crucial importance in the present case, since the contested judgment considered fully reliable and, therefore, conclusive conclusions reached by Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni (Scient Pol.) In order to trace DNA on the clasp Bra (rep. 165 B p. 240-250 and 320 sent. analysis results on the track 36B (blade of the kitchen knife), the Court held that the reference value they could take seriously circumstantial evidence (p. 321 sent. ).
In this regard, it should be pointed out that the expert report ordered on appeal, signed by Profs. Rather old and accounts, concerning the reliability of the results conducted by Dr. Stefanoni on these two findings (36 and 165 B), had led to a substantial unreliability of such assessments due to non-compliance with the procedures of inspection and repertazione, as well as for failure of international recommendations concerning the interpretation of the data.
However, the requirement of controllability marks the boundary between scientific and non-scientific theories; on the other hand, it is known that a scientific law can be considered as such only after being subjected to repeated attempts to overcome counterfeiting and after receiving repeated confirmations.
Other unfailing requirement is that of the widespread acceptance of the method within the international scientific community, because the failure to validate a specific technique means scientific uncertainty, which can not only achieve the acquittal of the accused when the evidence of guilt depends on it, given the uncertainty of the result.
For the above reasons, it is clear based on what parameters it may be considered that an investigation has technical validity of evidence or clue, or, conversely, when it is considered to be unreliable, that is unfit to compete, along with other elements, to base an assessment of responsibility.
The Court has held that "in assessing the results of an expert or technical advice, the judge must verify the scientific validity of the criteria and methods of investigation used, when they present themselves as new and experimental and therefore not subject to the scrutiny of a number of cases and the critical comparison between the experts of the industry, so they can not be considered yet acquired the assets of the scientific community "(Court of Cassation, Sec. II, July 11, 2012, Rv. 254344; Cass., Sec. II 17 October 2003, n. 834, Rv. 227854).
 
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Was into any drugs harder than pot?
If so, it is pretty easy to spend 2000 Euros
I find this curious, my understanding is Rudy seemed to enjoy hostelries and live in a sole apartment with no job. 2000 euros would sustain for 1 month. Notwithstanding the certainty that no one would replace that cash in the same place, as people replace stolen goods with insurance payouts to the same positions domestically, and are retargeted within a few weeks by the same perpetrators, I can't see why Rudy would not feel comfortable with the premises as a soft retarget.
 
That said, I'm sure that she also understand all of the data suppression issues and is avoiding the issue like its Fukishima. We know what that means.

Her reaction to any suggestion of impropriety is a hand-wave. She rejects any possibility of it axiomatically. She is not familiar with the content of the Conti-Vechiotti report (a trait shared with most - possibly all - guilters). She believes in the 6 day gap. Essentially, her position is that the e-grams themselves validate the process (I devised my calculation of pi analogy as a counter to this idea) and, having ruled out contamination or tampering, her rather facile position is that the odds against producing matching profiles by chance are up in the stratosphere - which is actually true, seeing as that's how DNA profiling works, if a little trite. Her great thesis was that a second text on the knife if it also threw up the Kercher profile would render the case overwhelmingly likely that the first test had been valid. Well, the second test has been done so I guess we are due a new preface to the second edition.

She thinks she is greatly buttressed by Balding, failing to understand that his work on the mixed profiles is merely statistical and not in any way related to the reality of sampling real cells from a real object and reliably extracting and profiling DNA from them. Of course, Stefanoni not being corrupt or incompetent or anything, must have had a perfectly good reason for destroying the bra clasp and it is a gross impertinence to suggest otherwise.

Etc
 
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Was into any drugs harder than pot?
If so, it is pretty easy to spend 2000 Euros


Is there any evidence of that? Any at all? Would his petty burglery career keep him supplied at that level? Between October 20 and October 27 Rudy is sighted several times. Are there any reports of Rudy appearing to be drugged up in that period?
 
Is there any evidence of that? Any at all? Would his petty burglery career keep him supplied at that level? Between October 20 and October 27 Rudy is sighted several times. Are there any reports of Rudy appearing to be drugged up in that period?

I am arguing that if he took the money and it was gone when he was arrested in Naples, then perhaps it was drugs. Maybe it never existed.

He seems to have stolen Meredeth's rent money based on it being gone and his DNA being on the purse (although with Italian DNA protocols :confused:) so it does not seem he was adverse to stealing money.

As far as if he used harder drugs, best thing would to see if there is any available tox reports.
 
So, here's Stefanoni's testimony on Sept. 6, 2011:

"EXPERT STEFANONI - So, the raw data are not available in the file, because I've never been, say, delivered. Can I explain what they are ..."
 
So, here's Stefanoni's testimony on Sept. 6, 2011:

"EXPERT STEFANONI - So, the raw data are not available in the file, because I've never been, say, delivered. Can I explain what they are ..."

Not to be obtuse, but what is your interpretation of the (perhaps loosely translated?) "...I've never been, say, delivered"?

Stef had never been delivered the resources from some third party? Or, she's never been "delivered", in the, say, Billy Graham, baptized-in-a-pond-raptured-to-glory, sense? :D
 
When they die in the streets, no one blames the streets

I think the term is "impunity".

Here's a story of convicted police officers getting a standing ovation from members of a police union, where the conviction was for culpable homicide in 2012, for a 2005 murder inside a police station.

The guilty verdict came at the end of a trial which had to contend with the killers’ colleagues changing tack and altering evidence, and was only arrived at thanks to the struggle of Federico’s parents and friends. And the sentences were quite mild, three years and six months of prison, then reduced to barely six months.​


And who is the lawyer for the police? Francesco Maresca.

 
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