Dowsing by a Skeptic

[Pixel42]

Almost everyone can dowse, in the sense of observing the rods/pendulum/twig move even though they're not consciously moving them, apparently in the presence of the thing they're dowsing for, and being amazed. No-one can dowse, in the sense of being able to use such rods/pendulums/twigs to find things more often than would be expected by chance under controlled conditions.

 

[SaskMick]

Do any of the opinions in this article seem somewhat familiar to you, SaskMick?

http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/

^{(Apologies if somebody else already linked to this and I didn't notice.)}

Not really, I don't know enough dowsers to know what they think in general. The only dowser I know with any length of experience does have a specialty, he specializes in medical dowsing. He works for a doctor who is also a dowser by verifying his diagnosis. He has been particularly helpful to me.

 

[Daylightstar]

Why not, I don't need it. I have a brand new house coming on the ninth of July, ... I would not know what to do with a million.

^{Hilite by Daylightstar}
But earlier:

We hear that a lot here.


ETA: I know where you can win a million dollars with your new-found powers.

Steve S

I know about the 1 million. And I could use it'...

^{Hilite by Daylightstar}

 

[SaskMick]

Almost everyone can dowse, in the sense of observing the rods/pendulum/twig move even though they're not consciously moving them, apparently in the presence of the thing they're dowsing for, and being amazed. No-one can dowse, in the sense of being able to use such rods/pendulums/twigs to find things more often than would be expected by chance under controlled conditions.

That is what you think.

 

[SaskMick]

^{Hilite by Daylightstar}
But earlier:


^{Hilite by Daylightstar}

Sure I could use it, it would give me great pleasure to spread it around, but I don't need it

 

[Daylightstar]

Sure I could use it, it would give me great pleasure to spread it around, but I don't need it

So, you're acting deceptively.

Did you burn down your own house, SaskMick?

 

[uvar]

Not really, I don't know enough dowsers to know what they think in general. The only dowser I know with any length of experience does have a specialty, he specializes in medical dowsing. He works for a doctor who is also a dowser by verifying his diagnosis. He has been particularly helpful to me.

Doesn't it seem like more than a coincidence that an article entirely about dowsers who often believe in themselves but can't prove their 'gift', written fifteen years ago, describes pretty much everything you've said so far? I don't really want to make a long post of comparisons, because it's boring and pedantic, but...

 

[Pixel42]

That is what you think.

That is what the evidence overwhelmingly shows.

Until you have some objective evidence that casts doubt on that conclusion you are not in a position to dispute it. You currently have no such evidence.

 

[Donn]

That is what you think.

As Pixel says, it's an amazing fact that dowsing has never worked in an honest test.

This is not an opinion. Gravity pulls. Sunlight warms. These are not opinions either. Dowsing's failure is in the same set of simple facts.

When you stop dancing and try to be honest with yourself, you will see that. A simple test in an honest frame of mind will remove the woo from your eyes.

 

[Drs_Res]

I can do it without the rods if I can lightly hold onto the wrist of the person who hid the item. Used to do that in magic shows I did way back when. 100% hit rate.

Please explain how that works.

The how it works part has been explained in this thread already, multiple times, and even you have posted the explanation. It's the same reason that dowsing "works". Since it is an effect used in magic shows, I am not going any farther with an explanation. You have the why of how it works, the rest is just presentation details.

I noticed you ignored the most important part of that post though:

Tried it myself, and I can dowse too. But it only works 100 percent when I know where the item is before hand. Otherwise I get the hits that random chance say I should, in some instances I do worse than chance says I should.
SNIP....

If you were really interested in figuring out what's going on, like you claim you want to, you would do a proper double blinded set of tests. You won't though because you already "know" what you can do. The thing is, without proper testing you don't really know what you "know" is correct.

How about applying for one of the paranormal challenges, earn some bucks and change our understanding of the laws of physics?

If you did that, and worked with one of the groups like IIG on a protocol, you'd see the proper way to set up a test for dowsing. There are a few threads on dowsing and proper protocols on this forum, you should read some of them.

I'll finally leave you with the following videos:

What Does Double Blind Testing Do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5nb7d-Lxbo




SAF - Water Water Everywhere

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq4S6ArE7wc





Richard Dawkins: Enemies ofReason (Dowsing section between the start and end points):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P2mS-AImeY&t=26m16s&end=33m31s

 

[abaddon]

That's because they all had conditioned brains.

Young children take to dowsing like a duck to water, it's because their minds have not been conditioned by society. They have no preconceptions of what they can not do so they just do it.

Nope. In every case it worked great until all cues were eliminated. In other words a blinded test such as is being suggested to you here.

I put it to you that your reluctance to engage in such a test is due to your own realisation that you will not be able to pass such a test and you are reluctant to have your house of cards, which only has the two jokers as the bottom layer, come tumbling down.

 

[Drs_Res]

What makes you think nobody here has tried it? I did, as did everyone I could get to give it a try. Nobody was hooked as it blatantly never worked for anyone.

That's because they all had conditioned brains.

Young children take to dowsing like a duck to water, it's because their minds have not been conditioned by society. They have no preconceptions of what they can not do so they just do it.

Here is another video for you, with a kid:

http://youtu.be/8xCNDx-tB4o?t=1m53s

 

[pakeha]

It is in no way similar! Do you understand what double blind means and why it is important for an experiment like this one? Or why there needs to be a control object of similar shape, size, and weight in the other hand?

Have her put a coin in one closed paper bag and something of equal weight (say a washer) in 9 more closed bags. Have her place them on the floor or a table and leave the room. Then you enter the room, dowse the bags and find the one with the coin. Repeat several times. Easy!

How about it, Saskmick?
Would you be willing to set up such a simple test?

Tried it myself, and I can dowse too. But it only works 100 percent when I know where the item is before hand. Otherwise I get the hits that random chance say I should, in some instances I do worse than chance says I should.

I can do it without the rods if I can lightly hold onto the wrist of the person who hid the item. Used to do that in magic shows I did way back when. 100% hit rate.

Yes. It's amazing how magical proofs of special powers can still rock audiences.

 

[Slowvehicle]

I would disagree. I feel sure that 99.32% of the population can dowse.

Forked sticks will not work for dowsing when trying to find polar liquids such as water, and it is an act of purest hubris, not to mention dangerous, to have tried to do so.

A polar molecule has a net dipole as a result of the opposing charges (i.e. having partial positive and partial negative charges) from polar bonds arranged asymmetrically. Water (H2O) is an example of a polar molecule since it has a slight positive charge on one side and a slight negative charge on the other. The dipoles do not cancel out resulting in a net dipole.

Since a forked stick is bipolar, it is suitable only for finding non polar substances. A molecule may be non polar either when there is an equal sharing of electrons between the two atoms of a diatomic molecule or because of the symmetrical arrangement of polar bonds in a more complex molecule.

Forked sticks could cause the dipole to cancel and explode. When talking to forked sticks, always inquire about safety.

The boron trifluoride molecule (BF3) has a trigonal planar arrangement of three polar bonds at 120°, and is non polar. This results in no overall dipole in the molecule, and it is safe for use with forked sticks. I have found many gallons of boron trifluoride on my farm using willow sticks. Use oak for finding radioactive elements or stray gerbils.

Coat hanger wire is tuned to the frequencies of humans' cognitive awareness syndromes, and the quantum efficiency is increased by rubbing with empathetic dowsing grease. Plastic coat hangers will not work, of course, because they do not retain the memory of having had human clothing on them and as a result will not recognize the voices.

The dowsing range of #12 black coat hanger wire is about 3.2 miles (5.15 km), and the smaller the gauge, the greater the distance of detection, much like homeopathic theory predicts. I once found a German submarine using .002" platinum wires. My wife wouldn't let me keep it.

Finding lost dogs is best done with forked beef bones.

 

[bluesjnr]

SUMMARY SO FAR.....

I can douse!

We certainly hope you can and we'd love to see it, what makes you so sure you can actually douse?

err.......I can douse!

We understand that you think you can and that's OK but you should really test your ability under certain strict conditions

I can douse!

Mmmhmm, you claiming it is so does not make it so. Here are some specific instructions to help you and here is a link that will give you more information on how and why you should test

Why do you hate me, is it because I can douse?

No, no there's no hate, just a tad of frustration because we want to help you on your journey and you don't seem to want to help yourself

BUMBLE BEES! ahhahahahahaha, got you all!

Yes, very good but lets return to your claim will you test it?

I already did!

Excellent and because you've followed a strict scientific approach you'll be ready to tell us your results

I can douse and so can you! _bumblebees

Did you follow our relatively simple protocol?

What's one of them?

We explained it already and give you step by step instructions and links and everything

I never said I wasn't gonna do it did I?

So, when will you do it?

I can douse!

SaskMick, you've not shown any evidence that you can

Hey, I've told you I can douse and so can you. What more do you need?

We need a properly executed test with strict protocols in place to ensure a reliable result

Where can I find that

We already...........

I can douse!

We want........

I can douse!

We.....

I CAN DOUSE!

 

[Slowvehicle]

Please explain in detail what I would need to do to satisfy everyone here.

Double-blind test under controlled conditions, as has been explained to you many times.

Had you read the other thread yet, you would have found several explanations of useful protocols.

 

[Donn]

I can douse too. Any candle within a six foot radius stands no chance.

 

[Slowvehicle]

SUMMARY SO FAR.....

I can douse!

We certainly hope you can and we'd love to see it, what makes you so sure you can actually douse?

err.......I can douse!

We understand that you think you can and that's OK but you should really test your ability under certain strict conditions

I can douse!

Mmmhmm, you claiming it is so does not make it so. Here are some specific instructions to help you and here is a link that will give you more information on how and why you should test

Why do you hate me, is it because I can douse?

No, no there's no hate, just a tad of frustration because we want to help you on your journey and you don't seem to want to help yourself

BUMBLE BEES! ahhahahahahaha, got you all!

Yes, very good but lets return to your claim will you test it?

I already did!

Excellent and because you've followed a strict scientific approach you'll be ready to tell us your results

I can douse and so can you! _bumblebees

Did you follow our relatively simple protocol?

What's one of them?

We explained it already and give you step by step instructions and links and everything

I never said I wasn't gonna do it did I?

So, when will you do it?

I can douse!

SaskMick, you've not shown any evidence that you can

Hey, I've told you I can douse and so can you. What more do you need?

We need a properly executed test with strict protocols in place to ensure a reliable result

Where can I find that

We already...........

I can douse!

We want........

I can douse!

We.....

I CAN DOUSE!

Nommed in awe.

 

[Donn]

In my snark I forgot to say: Great post, blues. Trenchant.

 

[tsig]

I would disagree. I feel sure that 99.32% of the population can dowse.

Forked sticks will not work for dowsing when trying to find polar liquids such as water, and it is an act of purest hubris, not to mention dangerous, to have tried to do so.

A polar molecule has a net dipole as a result of the opposing charges (i.e. having partial positive and partial negative charges) from polar bonds arranged asymmetrically. Water (H2O) is an example of a polar molecule since it has a slight positive charge on one side and a slight negative charge on the other. The dipoles do not cancel out resulting in a net dipole.

Since a forked stick is bipolar, it is suitable only for finding non polar substances. A molecule may be non polar either when there is an equal sharing of electrons between the two atoms of a diatomic molecule or because of the symmetrical arrangement of polar bonds in a more complex molecule.

Forked sticks could cause the dipole to cancel and explode. When talking to forked sticks, always inquire about safety.

The boron trifluoride molecule (BF3) has a trigonal planar arrangement of three polar bonds at 120°, and is non polar. This results in no overall dipole in the molecule, and it is safe for use with forked sticks. I have found many gallons of boron trifluoride on my farm using willow sticks. Use oak for finding radioactive elements or stray gerbils.

Coat hanger wire is tuned to the frequencies of humans' cognitive awareness syndromes, and the quantum efficiency is increased by rubbing with empathetic dowsing grease. Plastic coat hangers will not work, of course, because they do not retain the memory of having had human clothing on them and as a result will not recognize the voices.

The dowsing range of #12 black coat hanger wire is about 3.2 miles (5.15 km), and the smaller the gauge, the greater the distance of detection, much like homeopathic theory predicts. I once found a German submarine using .002" platinum wires. My wife wouldn't let me keep it.

Finding lost dogs is best done with forked beef bones.

I think you speak with forked tongue.