Quantum Field Theory: The Woo Stops Here

There were three questions given to me and those there, them are tree answers to those three questions. Go back and check what the questions were, if you can be bothered.

Actually, I was doing you the honor of letting you stand by your own words.

Let's unpack:


What is it that "you woos" call evidence?
1. Parapsychological studies and personal (anecdotal) evidence

I'll bite: to which clincally rigorous, double-blinded, repeated, "parapsychological studies" do you refer?

Are you aware of the critical shortcomings of "regression therapy", and "recovered memory"?

What is it evidence for?
2. Life after death and the recycling of souls; ESP comes with the territory

Given that "life" after "death" is a contradiction, you would need to come up with a demonstration of what you meant by "life" in this context--and that would require actual evidence for that claim.

Given that no evidence that "souls" exist (much less that they can be "recycled") has ever been substantiated, this is not"evidence" but an "assertion".

Given that ESP has never stood up to rigorous, double-blinded clinical testing, you are, once again equivocating "assertion" with "evidence.

What conclusions did you reach?
3. That there is purpose in life and that death is nothing to fear

How does an assertion that you have to do this all over again, and again, and (evidently) againandagainandagain, give life "meaning", or "purpose"?

How does an assertion that you are a "soul", repeatedly recycled, make death less fearsome?

How does the fact that your "past lives" or "previous recycles" are not accessible to you support your hopes in any way?
 
Something cannot be true if it contradicts something else that is true.

However, something can be true if it contradicts something that is wrongly perceived to be true, no matter how much evidence supports it.

I see. Your woo!pesrtition is "true", no mater how little evidence supports it and how much evidence contradicts it; reality is false no matter how much evidence supports it and how little evidence contradicts it...

Mighty convenient.
 
I'm intrigued by the question, but I'm not 100% I get it. Could you try and restate it for me, please. Pretty please, because I don't want to get it wrong.

I'll go feed my cat while I wait.

What makes you think life has a "purpose?"

What makes you think it is easier to subject what you understand to reflect reality to rigorous testing, than simply to gulp down select-a-woo! ?
 
Then how do drugs that alter brain function alter consciousness? How is it that they alter internal experience? Your only possible answer is that ALL the functions of consciousness are mapped to the brain, thus allowing alterations in brain state to "transfer up" to the disembodied consciousness. But if that is the case, then all the actions of consciousness are duplicated by physical actions of brain activity. There is no need for the external consciousness anymore!


I couldn't sleep, so I'm back. I don't know why you assume that something that has an effect on the brain wouldn't have an effect on the soul, if such a thing existed. If there was a soul, then naturally what we experience here on earth with our brains will be the soul's experience. LSD messes up the brain, which messes up our take on reality, and so the soul has the experience of a messed up reality.
 
When you get up, please explain where the non-corporeal experiencer machine goes when your brain gets scrambled? I mean, body is still alive but you aren't you anymore. It's like the damage to your corporeal experiencer machine had something to do with it.

Weird, huh?


Define the brain getting scrambled.
 
To which clincally rigorous, double-blinded, repeated, "parapsychological studies" do you refer?


http://deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm


Given that ESP has never stood up to rigorous, double-blinded clinical testing, you are, once again equivocating "assertion" with "evidence.


You're wrong.

http://deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm


How does an assertion that you have to do this all over again, and again, and (evidently) againandagainandagain, give life "meaning", or "purpose"?


That's more of a philosophical question. Maybe you can try some buddhist writings, or something, because I'm not the "love and light" kind of woo. Meaning comes from the hardships in life resulting in knowledge and wisdom, which you bring with you into the next life. And the nextandthenextand...

Purpose comes from listening to your inner voice and finding your true self and your true calling, if you're unlucky enough to have one.


How does an assertion that you are a "soul", repeatedly recycled, make death less fearsome?


It means you are going to see your loved ones again, and that you don't stop existing when you die. Many people fear being annihalated.


How does the fact that your "past lives" or "previous recycles" are not accessible to you support your hopes in any way?


How does not remembering support it? That's a weird question. I don't get it. In case you mean "doesn't not remembering squash those expectations", I would say it doesn't help to not remember. It would be better to remember. That's why so many care so much about some little kid talking about having been a pilot, and things like that. It would be better to remember, of course.
 
Your anecdote describes an instance where, in retrospect, something you say you did seemed to you to be prophetic. After the fact. With no evidence. When you got to draw the targets.


Oh, my God! No!

I didn't say I looked at the Mona Lisa, and so on. It was a made up example. Wow, we really can't communicate. I'll take the blame, but you do have the oddest ways of misunderstanding whenever there is the slightest chance of doing so.
 
What makes you think life has a "purpose?"

What makes you think it is easier to subject what you understand to reflect reality to rigorous testing, than simply to gulp down select-a-woo! ?


I'm starting to think every question just boils down to whether or not one accepts or rejects the scientific evidence for the paranormal. In fact, I think I'll just copy this entry and paste it on everything from now on.

Check out this URL:
http://deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm

If you have objections to that evidence, that's fine, but since I have nothing valuable to add to the work of those people - I'm not even a scientist - there's not much more I can say.
 
Look, there are (regression) cases where people have discovered buried stuff, where whole villages have remembered the same thing independently, where a group of people have tested each other to see if they can trick each other into remembering the wrong thing, where people have drawn maps of places they've never even heard of, but...

Citation? Sources?

The plural of "cool story, bro" is not...evidnce.

None of this matters if you decide beforehand that reincarnation is impossible, and then state that everyone involved in these cases, or in Ian Stevenson's research into children who remember past lives, et cetera, that all those people are lying, intentionally or unintentionally.

Everyone lies, like Dr. House famously stated, but not all the time and not about everything. I don't blame you for doubting, though. It's the sensible thing to do.

What an offensive accusation, that I "decided" not to "accept" reincarnation, and "rejected" it because of prejudice.

No reliable, concrete, objective, empirical evidence for the very existence of the "soul" has ever been offered, much less survived scrutiny. I accept that reincarnation is not an actual possibility because of the utter lack of evidence.
That evidence, BTW, for which I (and others) have asked you multiple times.
 
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I couldn't sleep, so I'm back. I don't know why you assume that something that has an effect on the brain wouldn't have an effect on the soul, if such a thing existed. If there was a soul, then naturally what we experience here on earth with our brains will be the soul's experience. LSD messes up the brain, which messes up our take on reality, and so the soul has the experience of a messed up reality.

Imagine what the act of brain death must do to that soul then, must really screw it up :rolleyes:
 
I take that as your way out of doing some reading. Is that how all of you read up on the paranormal?
I've read and experienced quite a bit of what some call the paranormal which is why I'm skeptical. Your participation in this thread thus far gives me the distinct impression you've done no research or reading at all in the position opposite of yours

Because that would make sense.
I don't trust your opinion at all in regard to things making sense.
 
A persistant vegetative state as just one example.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199405263302107


Yes, I understand. Thank you.

You know, I'm starting to think every question just boils down to whether or not one accepts or rejects the scientific evidence for the paranormal.

Check out this URL:
http://deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm

If you have objections to that evidence, that's fine, but since I have nothing valuable to add to the work of those people - I'm not even a scientist - there's not much more I can say.
 
If you know what falsifiable means, why do you not construct your claims about reincarnation to allow for it?


I have, but my website isn't ready. I'm sorry if that sounds pathetic, but that's kind of why I'm here. I'm still doing research, and the video in the OP was very helpful. I'm still wrapping my head around it, believe me. Who knows, I might come out a skeptic.


Do you mean, people who got a holy pass on suicide by committing it for 'god'?


I was thinking more about people like MLK, but I should probably have specified that. He was a believer who had a calling and knew there were dangers involved but did his important work anyway. The Americans named a day after him and they have a black president now, so he didn't die for nothing, even though it was kind of a "suicide" to be that outspoken.


How does convincing oneself that one's faith requires the assumption that one is being called by 'god' to an auto-da-fe differ from being "given" a "purpose"?


I don't know. I pass on that one.
 
We can spell it your way. It's more classy with a y, I think.

The thing is, I don't think it's right for a non-scientist like myself to criticize scientists for not agreeing with me about the worth of a precognition study or Ian Stevenson asking little boys to take off their shirts, to look at their birth marks, because if it doesn't feel right to them, even though it's their own people who did the work, meaning other scientists, then they shouldn't accept it. I wouldn't want them to. And as far as the evidence you're asking me to present, it would mostly, or exclusively, be things you've already heard of and already discarded.

Of course, it is much easier to just gulp down the woo!-lade, and pretend that you are above the fray by accusing me of pre-rejecting your "evidence", without ever having to present any.

You may be right that it is intellectually dishonesty to pretend that discredited studies were discredited because of prejudice, or maybe it's intellectually dishonesty to pretend that prejudice has nothing to do with it, and that only scientist who are pro-paranormalia can be dishonest, not the ones who are con.

I think you will find that very few scientists even bother with being "con-paramormalia"; it is much more likely to find actual scientists pursuing evidence. It is much easier, of course, for you to comfort yourself that people who disagree with the woo! you pitch are simply tarred with dishonesty and sticky with deceit. After all, that is behaviour you, yourself, claimed to be practicing...

On a side note, I don't know what your Verónica Grande reference was about, but thank you for the lovely Google images.

The Verónica Grande is a cape move, where a matador assumes a position outside the swirl of the cape to fool the bull into thinking he is where he is not. It is a lovely move, and is incorporated into Folklórico, but it is not an honest debate tactic.

What is the other saying, the one about credibility not bring a boomerang?

I think it's a moving goal post thing. I don't have a link.

Is that an accusation, or an admission? If the former, support it or withdraw it. If the latter, well, surprise, surprise. (It was, after all, I who suggested that you ought to nail them down, first.)

Well, if you follow the history of parapsychology from its early days to here and now, you can see how all of these things have already been tested and proven again and again. The skeptics then tear every study apart for reasons that aren't made clear to the unbiased bystander. You'll disagree, of course, but that's my answer.

If the "studies" can be demonstrated to be poorly done, or improperly blinded, or specially-pled, or of insignificant sample size, or misstated,or any one of another ways that research can gang agley, then "these things" have, in fact, NOT "...already been tested and proven again and again...".

Oh, wait, that's right: according to you, the only reason for a "con-paranormalia" scientist to insist upon rigour is dishonesty.

Yes. That's why the client needs to be tested, in tricky ways that circumsomething those hazards. Which has been done, but which you will now insist has not been done.

You have dizzying powers of prediction. I am sorry: I must have missed the post where you provided citations to, ,and sources for, the manifold studies where rigorous steps were taken to "circumsomething those hazards". Be so kind as to put up a link to that post, there's a dinkum cobber.

To say nothing of the consent issues with testing the "client" in "tricky ways"...

That's easy. They're animal souls. Same thing as evolution, only not just with apes. This is evident in that most people are sheep. Smiley face.

Transparent evasion. How do you explain the fact that the population is growing all the time, yet "souls" are recycled?

Is :) the extent of your argument?

That would be a good place to start. Agreed.

Not a "good place"; the "only place". Unless and until the "soul" is demonstrated to exist, it is fruitless to discuss how the "soul" is "recycled". It's exactly like fanbois arguing about whether "reversing the polarity" would, or would not, actually "fix" the transporter.
 
You're assuming that consciousness exists as a result of brain activity. Without that assumption, it's not self-evident why the experience of being should cease.

No, you are assuming that consciousness is not an emergent property of a functioning neurosystem, as it gives every evidence of being.

Think of the moral implications.
 
How do you claim that your idea of "recycled souls" can be demonstrated to conform with reality in any way?


That is a tough one. I'm still struggling with it. I have - well, I can't call it evidence without you freaking out. I have studied history and found things that connect certain things with certain other things and it doesn't seem to be something one can reasonably explain away as chance occurences.

Since I know it has to work in harmony with evolution, the Big Bang theory, quantum fields and a lot of other scientific certainties, I'm working hard to find a way to make that happen.

It's extremely difficult, though. Perhaps it's impossible, in which case I have to present something that will be hard to accept even for the kind of people who believe in such things, which would be a shame.
 

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