Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

Does anyone have a credible source for Rudi being desperate or needing rent money? I have seen this assumed for years but I don't recall anything resembling proof. Maybe I totally missed it.

In much of Europe it is very hard to evict a tenet. In most of Europe the state has an extensive welfare system. Rudi had been working IIRC and not that long ago. I was under the impression that he worked at the same place as Koko at some point. He was on a semi-pro basketball team that usually means getting paid or having a job at the sponsoring company.

 

[Desert Fox]

Agreed and that is another reason I don't think of him as a "professional". I see him as the "dangerous" type of burglar. That he wants to be on the edge of getting caught..that is part of the thrill. Grinder points out that Rudy spent the night at the nursery as a reason that he "wasn't a burglar" I see it as a reason that he was that dangerous type of burglar doing it partially for the "thrill".

I might believe that Rudy wasn't a practiced burglar and he was just merely caught in the nursery. Vagrants are known for sneaking into people's homes to get warm for example..even when people ar there. But I dismiss that because of the laptop, the phone, the watch and the hammer.

Whatever arguments Grinder argues, Rudy's palm prints were at the scene, shoe prints are at the scene, there was a lot of DNA evidence of him (for whatever it is worth), admits to being there, and Meredeth's money was gone. Her cell phones were also taken.

I would argue that it is pretty solid that he was a burglar in that case.

Small time burglars similar to what we assume Rudy is, I wonder how common it is that they keep some of the merchandise they swipe.
We don't have to prove any of this to speculate a bit because it does not effect how we should judge the crime.
I speculate, based on some interviews with police, that the type of criminal that I think he is that he will be extremely dangerous when released.

 

[acbytesla]

Lucky you're on the civil side of things

Think he took the gold watch there as a fashion accessory?

Tesla - if he loaded the picture on the computer a hour after the theft it would prove nothing. Anglo brilliantly theorized that he would put the image on asap so if caught it would look like his computer. The law firm's logo might be a tip off.

Seriously Grinder? Sure it is remotely possible that the thief brought it to him that quickly but wouldn't you agree that the closer to the actual burglary the better the chance that he was the actual burglar?

 

[Bill Williams]

Whatever arguments Grinder argues, Rudy's palm prints were at the scene, shoe prints are at the scene, there was a lot of DNA evidence of him (for whatever it is worth), admits to being there, and Meredeth's money was gone. Her cell phones were also taken.

I would argue that it is pretty solid that he was a burglar in that case.

Small time burglars similar to what we assume Rudy is, I wonder how common it is that they keep some of the merchandise they swipe.
We don't have to prove any of this to speculate a bit because it does not effect how we should judge the crime.
I speculate, based on some interviews with police, that the type of criminal that I think he is that he will be extremely dangerous when released.

Guilter logic needs some things to be one thing at one time, and another thing at another time.

But this has been stretched completely out of shape with what was mentioned way, way up thread.

Rudy Guede.... small time thief? Small time second storey man? Drifter? Misunderstood immigrant? The convenient "black" to blame for a crime?

Or........ and this is the reason why guilters will neither translate nor read the Nencini motivations report of April 2014..... the professional burgalr who would have no trouble going through a locked front door if he had to, and who wouldn't in a million years crap in a toilet unless he had permission to be in the house?

Some times this need for everything to be everything just gets out of hand....

Who cares if Rudy is a fence? At some point the problem is not Rudy Guede, but the people who try to make him be what their latest pet theory is.

 

[acbytesla]

Does anyone have a credible source for Rudi being desperate or needing rent money? I have seen this assumed for years but I don't recall anything resembling proof. Maybe I totally missed it.

In much of Europe it is very hard to evict a tenet. In most of Europe the state has an extensive welfare system. Rudi had been working IIRC and not that long ago. I was under the impression that he worked at the same place as Koko at some point. He was on a semi-pro basketball team that usually means getting paid or having a job at the sponsoring company.

He had been fired as a landscaper and he was unemployed. I played on a a semi pro football team at one time too Grinder. We were paid about 50 dollars a game. Not enough money to live on.

I don't think of Rudy as desperate that he was really going to starve. Just that he was lost. But as was pointed out in another post..he was doing it as much for the thrill as anything else.

 

[Grinder]

Whatever arguments Grinder argues, Rudy's palm prints were at the scene, shoe prints are at the scene, there was a lot of DNA evidence of him (for whatever it is worth), admits to being there, and Meredeth's money was gone. Her cell phones were also taken.

I would argue that it is pretty solid that he was a burglar in that case.

I have never ever never argued that Rudi wasn't there. He definitely was there. What I question is everybody's perfect knowledge of his habits and behavior. He might have been working with someone, the actual burglar and maybe the murderer. Before you go off on no evidence of this person, remember what police force and what scientist did the work. There were many unidentified prints and as you all know the DNA on the bra clasp. If this person, brought by Koko, was the pro burglar maybe he was very careful and beat Locard at his game.

Small time burglars similar to what we assume Rudy is, I wonder how common it is that they keep some of the merchandise they swipe.
We don't have to prove any of this to speculate a bit because it does not effect how we should judge the crime.
I speculate, based on some interviews with police, that the type of criminal that I think he is that he will be extremely dangerous when released.

He is burglarizing left and right but he is small time. He needs rent money but holds onto the most valuable computer. He's broke but keeps multiple computers.

Based on interviews I've had with prosecutors Rudi will compete with saints for good behavior.

 

[Grinder]

He had been fired as a landscaper and he was unemployed. I played on a a semi pro football team at one time too Grinder. We were paid about 50 dollars a game. Not enough money to live on.

I don't think of Rudy as desperate that he was really going to starve. Just that he was lost. But as was pointed out in another post..he was doing it as much for the thrill as anything else.

My Tesla you have personal experiences in almost every arena. Weren't you also a second story man as a youth?

What semi pro football team did you play for?

Rudi went out the two nights before the murder with the Spanish girls and guys. He was out partying when he met Giacomo with Amanda and Meredith.

Do you have any source for Rudi's work history or are you just doing this from memory from articles that you can't link to? Remember a little while ago you were pontificating about something and I showed you the court records of Rudi being crossed even though you said he hadn't been. You were off by 50% in how many requests of the defense Nonsecini granted.

People get and lose jobs all the time. You have no idea what he was paid to play on the team.

Now I'd be interested in his actual work history.

 

[Desert Fox]

I have never ever never argued that Rudi wasn't there. He definitely was there. What I question is everybody's perfect knowledge of his habits and behavior. He might have been working with someone, the actual burglar and maybe the murderer. Before you go off on no evidence of this person, remember what police force and what scientist did the work. There were many unidentified prints and as you all know the DNA on the bra clasp. If this person, brought by Koko, was the pro burglar maybe he was very careful and beat Locard at his game.

There is not enough in that house to be worth the attention of a real pro.
In addition, a real pro hits during the day not night.
Third, If they saw anybody even near, they would run like hell.
The evidence is that Rudy was in there by himself. Let us not invent things here.

 

[acbytesla]

My Tesla you have personal experiences in almost every arena. Weren't you also a second story man as a youth?

No but I was a roommate with a guy who occasionally broke into homes, the guy stole a hot tub for the house we were living in. He also bought two motorcycles and tore them apart and put the engines on a couple of go karts and then you reported the motorcycles stolen for the insurance money. He was a fun guy but I knew that if I kept hanging out with him I'd get in trouble too.

What semi pro football team did you play for?
[/QUOTE]
I played for half a season for the Renton Rams about 30 years ago. (I was the kicker and a guard..too slow for anything else..and it was more for fun than it was for money)

I had a lot of experiences Grinder. I also worked on construction, worked in a pizza joint, a disco...I tended bar, waited tables. I did some serious hiking and even repelling. I played soccer, tennis and football in high school and Jr. High. From about the age of 18 to 28 I had so many different jobs it would be hard to count. I worked lots of jobs in sales. I sold warranties over the phone for RCA. I sold house numbers that you see painted on curbs. I worked for MicroAmerica which is a wholesale computer distributor and then Data Devices which is a rep firm for Data communications. I was a rep for ADIC in Redmond which specializes in robotic tape back up. I worked for a company called Computech in Kirlkland that specialized in selling new and used computer systems and datacom. I did the same thing for another company and brokered from my home for a while. I have lots of friends in law enforcement..but probably wouldn't have any if my best friend from college didn't become a cop. Beyond that Grinder, I can't think of much else.. Well I am a pretty good golfer too.

Rudi went out the two nights before the murder with the Spanish girls and guys. He was out partying when he met Giacomo with Amanda and Meredith.

So?

Do you have any source for Rudi's work history or are you just doing this from memory from articles that you can't link to? Remember a little while ago you were pontificating about something and I showed you the court records of Rudi being crossed even though you said he hadn't been. You were off by 50% in how many requests of the defense Nonsecini granted.

That is from Nina's boodk.

People get and lose jobs all the time. You have no idea what he was paid to play on the team.

True you're right people do get and lost jobs all the time. I did at his age. You're right I don't actually know how much he was paid to play. But I seriously doubt he made much money playing semipro basketball..but hey..I could be wrong. I just know that semipro teams around here don't tend to stay afloat very long and those that I know play don't do it for the money.

Now I'd be interested in his actual work history.

The only thing I know he did or read that he did was work landscaping and played basketball. My memory seems to want to tell me that he also worked in a restaurant but I'm not sure about that.

 

[Samson]

There is not enough in that house to be worth the attention of a real pro.
In addition, a real pro hits during the day not night. Third, If they saw anybody even near, they would run like hell.
The evidence is that Rudy was in there by himself. Let us not invent things here.

And a real stager does it silently, but conversely AmyStrange has confirmed the strategy of making a hell of a noise before burgling.
Another point is the shotput weight of the rock. The action in putting is identical to a carefully targeted basketball throw from 11 feet. Did Raffaele play basketball? A question that has been crossing my mind.

 

[Grinder]

There is not enough in that house to be worth the attention of a real pro.
In addition, a real pro hits during the day not night.
Third, If they saw anybody even near, they would run like hell.
The evidence is that Rudy was in there by himself. Let us not invent things here.

What was Koko doing there? It is well established he was there.

I so impressed by how many pros we have here

Pros run like hell hmmmm.

There was the money, computers and the pot downstairs.

 

[acbytesla]

I have never ever never argued that Rudi wasn't there. He definitely was there. What I question is everybody's perfect knowledge of his habits and behavior. He might have been working with someone, the actual burglar and maybe the murderer. Before you go off on no evidence of this person, remember what police force and what scientist did the work. There were many unidentified prints and as you all know the DNA on the bra clasp. If this person, brought by Koko, was the pro burglar maybe he was very careful and beat Locard at his game.

He is burglarizing left and right but he is small time. He needs rent money but holds onto the most valuable computer. He's broke but keeps multiple computers.

Based on interviews I've had with prosecutors Rudi will compete with saints for good behavior.

There has been a lot said about Rudy. Much that is wrong for sure. And some no one can confirm. He WASN'T A drifter. he played on a semi pro basketball team at one time. He had been fired from landscaping. And that his adopted parents were frustrated with him and said he was a liar.

Beyond that Grinder, I know very little about Rudy that I can count on. I know he was caught in the nursery with stolen goods from recent burglaries. I know he left his DNA and his footprints in Meredith's blood at the cottage.
I know that CT said he was the one he discovered in his home one night and that he pulled a knife on him. I know from Nina Burleigh that his next door neighbor thinks he is the one who broke into her home and stole her mother's watch.

 

[Grinder]

And a real stager does it silently, but conversely AmyStrange has confirmed the strategy of making a hell of a noise before burgling.
Another point is the shotput weight of the rock. The action in putting is identical to a carefully targeted basketball throw from 11 feet. Did Raffaele play basketball? A question that has been crossing my mind.

Obviously you don't play basketball because a shot put is not like any basketball shot.

Raf was trained in the Marshall arts. He was also an expert in bocce ball (I made that up)

 

[Samson]

Obviously you don't play basketball because a shot put is not like any basketball shot.

Raf was trained in the Marshall arts. He was also an expert in bocce ball (I made that up)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvZgPB69UsA

 

[Desert Fox]

What was Koko doing there? It is well established he was there.
I so impressed by how many pros we have here

Pros run like hell hmmmm.

There was the money, computers and the pot downstairs.

Maybe I missed something but I am not aware of the evidence of this Koko being there at teh time of the murder?

As far as being a pro, I am a former PI so I know just a bit.

Pros tend to avoid trouble not kill the person.
Robbery is short stretch, murder is a long stretch even in Italy.
Robbers usual go unidentified and are usually low priority.

Money, most is probably on the person.
Computers are not real portable even laptops.
Pot, my understanding is that it was small scale and was pot not anything more valuable.

Pros usually go for more wealthy homes where there is jewelry, safes, and the like. If pros are going to want to go for computers and the like, they are going to want a car as well.

 

[acbytesla]

What was Koko doing there? It is well established he was there.

I so impressed by how many pros we have here

Pros run like hell hmmmm.

There was the money, computers and the pot downstairs.

I always wondered just how much pot there was downstairs. I tend to think that was Rudy's actual target that day..but that is just wild speculation.

 

[Diocletus]

Quick question in regard to Ms Stefanoni's magical method of generating incriminating lab results: is it in any way significant that her DNA results from the knife blade and the metal bra clasp, are both from metal surfaces?

If Madame Stefanoni were looking to induce a false DNA result through contamination in some way, would the surface from which the DNA was purportedly extracted be of any help to her in such an effort? Is it easier to sample a metal surface than cloth?

Interesting question. Metal, I think, would need to be swabbed. Other substances, e.g., cloth, might be treated differently. Could the swabs conceivably have been a source of contamination? Idk.

 

[Strozzi]

I'm not sure I care for the term "professional thief". If you believe that someone burglarizes a place to sell the loot they are by definition a "professional". But I think we actually imagine the term to mean someone who is really working the job as some kind of career. That they are "slick and polished" a great deal of experience. And as much as I think Rudy was a burglar, I'm not really sure these last descriptions fit him. I see him as desperate and has no idea of his place in this world. That he sees breaking into homes to pay the rent or to get things that he doesn't have ..for this moment in his life.

Professional thief can have several meanings. A guy with no regular means of support committing burglaries to sustain himself is a professional thief, although that does not mean he is going about it in a professional manner. Rudy went about it as an amateur. A thief operating in a professional manner would not forget to flush (leave his DNA behind). He would be in and out rapidly; he would not stop to eat, dine, or cook pasta in the victim's kitchen. He would not pursue the homeowner, he would flee in the opposite direction. He would not burgle a residence or in a neighborhoid where he might be recognized, especially if he is an identifiable minority in that neighborhood. He would not carry a knife as a weapon as that could mean he was armed.

 

[acbytesla]

Professional thief can have several meanings. A guy with no regular means of support committing burglaries to sustain himself is a professional thief, although that does not mean he is going about it in a professional manner. Rudy went about it as an amateur. A thief operating in a professional manner would not forget to flush (leave his DNA behind). He would be in and out rapidly; he would not stop to eat, dine, or cook pasta in the victim's kitchen. He would not pursue the homeowner, he would flee in the opposite direction. He would not burgle a residence or in a neighborhoid where he might be recognized, especially if he is an identifiable minority in that neighborhood. He would not carry a knife as a weapon as that could mean he was armed.

I think you nailed it Strozzi. That is kind of the problem with the Nencini motivation. He says Rudy is a professional thief and then he goes on to say that a professional wouldn't have gone in through that window. As if he would know. I've never figured that one out. Just because to one person's eyes an entry looks too tough or to exposed doesn't mean it is to someone else.

I see that like driving home. I used to take many routes home sometimes because I thought traffic would be bad one way and sometimes just for the hell of it.

 

[Desert Fox]

Professional thief can have several meanings. A guy with no regular means of support committing burglaries to sustain himself is a professional thief, although that does not mean he is going about it in a professional manner. Rudy went about it as an amateur. A thief operating in a professional manner would not forget to flush (leave his DNA behind). He would be in and out rapidly; he would not stop to eat, dine, or cook pasta in the victim's kitchen. He would not pursue the homeowner, he would flee in the opposite direction. He would not burgle a residence or in a neighborhoid where he might be recognized, especially if he is an identifiable minority in that neighborhood. He would not carry a knife as a weapon as that could mean he was armed.

This is part of the problem. . . .
Assume that Rudy is just a normal burglar. Even if she sees him and can identify him, maybe he gets a few months in jail?
The fact that he did not do that but instead went after her, ripped her clothes off, and raped her indicates a very dangerous personality.