Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Strozzi]

. . . Even if you believe Rudy when he says he bought the laptop at the train station, it appears as if he is not selling it but using it, in fact putting his own picture on the desktop. (btw, A smart detective could easily prove or disprove whether or not it was even possible for Rudy to have bought the laptop in Milan instead of Perugia, by checking the date when Rudy's image was copied to that laptop.)

Didn't Rudy tell Milan police he bought the laptop at the Milan train station the previous evening and then paid someone to let him into the school late that night (2 am?)?

Nursery school owner Maria Del Prato said she walked into her office at 8 am on Oct 27 to find a young black man unhooking the cable to her computer in order to connect it to his laptop. In other words, he had not yet completed hooking the cable to the laptop when she walked in on him.

If the laptop in Rudy's possession had not yet been connected to the Internet when Del Prato surprised him, how did he download the Armani image from his email or elsewhere on the web and save it as a screensaver on the laptop?

This is proof that Rudy did not acquire the laptop the previous evening. He had been online with it before then.

Even Mignini would have to recognize "Poor Rudy" is a liar.

 

[Grinder]

So you admit there is no proof that he was a fence?

Are you really that dense or do have to work at it? He didn't get the loot in Milan because he got it in Perugia where his supplier stole it. He had many stolen items in his backpack and at his flat because he was a fence.

I'm not sure I go that far..but I do agree what Nonsencini says is irrelevant.

No you take from every source only what aids your bias.

You can't think that is odd. My point is that besides your leap of logic there is nothing that leads to him being a fence. At least your contention that he had a date with Meredith has something going for it

Why is it a leap when he was caught with stolen items but clearly wasn't burglarizing the nursery unless you think the knife was of value.

You have to do better than that. You know there isn't.

Why you don't.

My point wasn't that you didn't agree that he got it in Perugia, just that we would be able to prove the earliest time he took possession of the laptop. Would you still think he was a fence if the time stamp on that image was the day after the burglary?

What in the world are you talking about? Time stamp on what image? The laptop, cell phone and printer were stolen and the thief sold/fronted the laptop and cell to Rudi, maybe the same night. ETA - Just saw the image of Rudi is what you were talking about which he put on the laptop after he received it obviously. It wouldn't make any difference when it was taken.

There is actual evidence that he possessed stolen goods but no evidence he ever burglarized. CT's story would be discounted totally if it went against the kids. Diaz would be completely ignored if it went against the kids and was written by Barbie or Follain. You are so overcome by your biases that you can't see.

The computer evidence only means one of them were there until the video was started. Did Amanda ever mention Naruto?

Amanda met and was introduced to Rudi. Why it being unplanned means anything is completely specious.

One of them could have left shortly after Popovic left. You always try to re-frame. The GE evidence can't be used to say she was dead by 9:25 or anytime before the other evidence at just before 10.

 

[katy_did]

Why is it a leap when he was caught with stolen items but clearly wasn't burglarizing the nursery unless you think the knife was of value.

My guess is he was caught before he had the chance. He'd probably have grabbed anything he could carry of value before he left if he hadn't been interrupted. Probably thought he had the place to himself for the whole weekend so there was no need to rush.

 

[Grinder]

Didn't Rudy tell Milan police he bought the laptop at the Milan train station the previous evening and then paid someone to let him into the school late that night (2 am?)?

Nursery school owner Maria Del Prato said she walked into her office at 8 am on Oct 27 to find a young black man unhooking the cable to her computer in order to connect it to his laptop. In other words, he had not yet completed hooking the cable to the laptop when she walked in on him.

If the laptop in Rudy's possession had not yet been connected to the Internet when Del Prato surprised him, how did he download the Armani image from his email or elsewhere on the web and save it as a screensaver on the laptop?

This is proof that Rudy did not acquire the laptop the previous evening. He had been online with it before then.

Even Mignini would have to recognize "Poor Rudy" is a liar.

Rudi acquired the laptop in Perugia. He did not acquire it in Milan. He took it to Milan to sell it as he planned to sell the other items.

Of course Rudi lied about the way he acquired the loot as he didn't want to squeal on his buddies back in Perugia. Easier to say some guy in Milan.

When was the picture taken and by whom? Why would you assume it wasn't loaded directly to the computer if the pic was taken on that trip to Milan?

 

[Grinder]

My guess is he was caught before he had the chance. He'd probably have grabbed anything he could carry of value before he left if he hadn't been interrupted. Probably thought he had the place to himself for the whole weekend so there was no need to rush.

Sure could be but I do believe he was a bit cautious and took the knife for protection. He had taken to petty cash so I think that aspect was done with. My point is that while the PIP have just run with the burglar meme the proof of it is not very strong. Yes he was in the nursery but there were no signs of a break in which lends credence to his story of being let in. CT's story doesn't wash, not even the Italians let him testify. Nina's story has no corroboration and was speculation at best.

Of course, he could have been a burglar and a fence.

 

[Strozzi]

. . . Are you really that dense or do have to work at it? He didn't get the loot in Milan because he got it in Perugia where his supplier stole it. He had many stolen items in his backpack and at his flat because he was a fence. . . .

Actually, I think what we really can tell from this is that he had items from several burglaries.

He had items (laptop, cell phone) from a burglary at the lawyer's office. The one where the break-in was done in a manner similar the break-in at the cottage where Rudy was present.

Rudy had a woman's gold watch in his knapsack. We know a woman's gold watch was stolen in a recent burglary from Rudy's neighbor's house. She is reported to have said Rudy observed her loading her car for a trip to the country that day, so he knew she was not home. Other things that occurred in the house suggest the thief behaved in a manner consistent with Rudy's behavior elsewhere.

Rudy had a very small hammer, similar to the kind kept on busses to be used to break windowglass in an emergency.

Rudy had several computers (desktops?) in his flat. His flat did not have an Internet service connection.

Looks like a burglar to me with 4-5 or so burglaries under his belt. Looks like he was stuck with a woman's gold watch and a couple computers (desktops?) that he could not unload.

No proof that he is a fence buying or accepting stolen items from others for resale.

Can anyone list the burglaries in Perugia where the burglar used the toilet and failed to flush? It would be interesting to see if that is a common MO at various burglaries.

 

[benno]

So what are the chances of Amanda and Raffaele going back to prison?

 

[acbytesla]

Rudi acquired the laptop in Perugia. He did not acquire it in Milan. He took it to Milan to sell it as he planned to sell the other items.

Maybe..even probably.

Of course Rudi lied about the way he acquired the loot as he didn't want to squeal on his buddies back in Perugia. Easier to say some guy in Milan.

While I agree that this is all theoretically possible, there isn't an ounce of proof that he got his loot from someone else.

When was the picture taken and by whom? Why would you assume it wasn't loaded directly to the computer if the pic was taken on that trip to Milan?

The point Grinder is that we can find out exactly the time that image was loaded on that computer (time stamp) ....and you didn't answer the question. If we found out that the image was loaded on the computer early the morning after the burglary at the law office would you still believe that he got it from someone else?

You are right. I do think Rudy was a burglar and I think the evidence very much supports that contention. In fact I haven't really seen anything that would make me think otherwise. Call that bias or whatever. I would definitely be open to anything that might prove otherwise, but the fact that Rudy was possessing stolen loot does not mean that he hadn't stolen the good that he was possessing. And until there is proof otherwise, I'd say it more likely that he was a burglar as opposed to being a fence.

 

[Desert Fox]

Yes, that is how I understand it. 45 days puts us at June 15, which is just 4 days from now. Assuming the clock started at May 1.

I think standard actually is to file these things at the last minute so that they can polish things as much as possible.

 

[acbytesla]

So what are the chances of Amanda and Raffaele going back to prison?

Your guess is as good as anyone else's. I contend that there is a very good chance that Raffaele might go back to prison and little reason to think that Amanda would ever be extradited. But then again, that is only my opinion.

Nothing would surprise me at this point.

 

[Planigale]

The extraction of DNA was done by EZ1 (Qiagen). I guess this in essence cleans (or removes) contaminants from the DNA sample (not to be confused with contamination of the DNA sample). How does this machine add (or take away) from the end result profile being reliable?

Chemistry!

It will differ depending on the sample. But in essence you lyse cellular material (use a solvent to dissolve cell membrane), or wash it out. Then mix the dirty liquid containing the DNA of interest together with all the cell debris with clever little magnetic beads that the DNA sticks to you then just collect the magnetic beads and wash them clean of debris, then change the chemical environment (usually the sodium level), which makes the magnetic beads drop the DNA into solution. There you have it clean DNA (not necessarily human). The subsequent amplification steps are human DNA specific. (The Qubit was not human specific, but probably irrelevant since it detected no DNA in the sample taken from the knife blade).

 

[Desert Fox]

Your guess is as good as anyone else's. I contend that there is a very good chance that Raffaele might go back to prison and little reason to think that Amanda would ever be extradited. But then again, that is only my opinion.

Nothing would surprise me at this point.

Your position is pretty as much with the same caveats

 

[anglolawyer]

Actually I am not sure he took the laptop to Milan to sell it. He still had it after all. Maybe it was a fancy one and he really meant to keep it.

 

[Desert Fox]

Actually I am not sure he took the laptop to Milan to sell it. He still had it after all. Maybe it was a fancy one and he really meant to keep it.

Wondering there are any studies on how often "professional" thieves keep stuff?

 

[acbytesla]

Wondering there are any studies on how often "professional" thieves keep stuff?

I'm not sure I care for the term "professional thief". If you believe that someone burglarizes a place to sell the loot they are by definition a "professional". But I think we actually imagine the term to mean someone who is really working the job as some kind of career. That they are "slick and polished" a great deal of experience. And as much as I think Rudy was a burglar, I'm not really sure these last descriptions fit him. I see him as desperate and has no idea of his place in this world. That he sees breaking into homes to pay the rent or to get things that he doesn't have ..for this moment in his life.

 

[Desert Fox]

I'm not sure I care for the term "professional thief". If you believe that someone burglarizes a place to sell the loot they are by definition a "professional". But I think we actually imagine the term to mean someone who is really working the job as some kind of career. That they are "slick and polished" a great deal of experience. And as much as I think Rudy was a burglar, I'm not really sure these last descriptions fit him. I see him as desperate and has no idea of his place in this world. That he sees breaking into homes to pay the rent or to get things that he doesn't have ..for this moment in his life.

Why I put it in scare quotes
I agree that desperation may have played a major part although with him I think there may have been a thrill as well.

 

[acbytesla]

Why I put it in scare quotes
I agree that desperation may have played a major part although with him I think there may have been a thrill as well.

Agreed and that is another reason I don't think of him as a "professional". I see him as the "dangerous" type of burglar. That he wants to be on the edge of getting caught..that is part of the thrill. Grinder points out that Rudy spent the night at the nursery as a reason that he "wasn't a burglar" I see it as a reason that he was that dangerous type of burglar doing it partially for the "thrill".

I might believe that Rudy wasn't a practiced burglar and he was just merely caught in the nursery. Vagrants are known for sneaking into people's homes to get warm for example..even when people ar there. But I dismiss that because of the laptop, the phone, the watch and the hammer.

 

[carbonjam72]

Quick question in regard to Ms Stefanoni's magical method of generating incriminating lab results: is it in any way significant that her DNA results from the knife blade and the metal bra clasp, are both from metal surfaces?

If Madame Stefanoni were looking to induce a false DNA result through contamination in some way, would the surface from which the DNA was purportedly extracted be of any help to her in such an effort? Is it easier to sample a metal surface than cloth?

 

[Grinder]

Actually, I think what we really can tell from this is that he had items from several burglaries.

Yup, that's what fences have.

He had items (laptop, cell phone) from a burglary at the lawyer's office. The one where the break-in was done in a manner similar the break-in at the cottage where Rudy was present.

Yup, it was similar.

Rudy had a woman's gold watch in his knapsack. We know a woman's gold watch was stolen in a recent burglary from Rudy's neighbor's house. She is reported to have said Rudy observed her loading her car for a trip to the country that day, so he knew she was not home. Other things that occurred in the house suggest the thief behaved in a manner consistent with Rudy's behavior elsewhere.

Could you provide proof of the above not from Nina? Consistent with what behavior elsewhere?

Rudy had a very small hammer, similar to the kind kept on busses to be used to break windowglass in an emergency.

Not consistent with the big rock theory. More consistent with breaking into cars. But he had no knife of his own, what about that?

Rudy had several computers (desktops?) in his flat. His flat did not have an Internet service connection.

Because he was fencing them.

Looks like a burglar to me with 4-5 or so burglaries under his belt. Looks like he was stuck with a woman's gold watch and a couple computers (desktops?) that he could not unload.

There is no evidence to support the above theory.

No proof that he is a fence buying or accepting stolen items from others for resale.

He had the evidence of being a fence - the loot.

Can anyone list the burglaries in Perugia where the burglar used the toilet and failed to flush? It would be interesting to see if that is a common MO at various burglaries.

Can anyone list car break ins where the thief didn't shut the door when he left?

Did Rudi use the toilet at CT's or does Nina claim Diaz told her that? I certainly hope that his use of his friends' toilet downstairs isn't being added to this list.

 

[Grinder]

Actually I am not sure he took the laptop to Milan to sell it. He still had it after all. Maybe it was a fancy one and he really meant to keep it.

Lucky you're on the civil side of things

Think he took the gold watch there as a fashion accessory?

Tesla - if he loaded the picture on the computer a hour after the theft it would prove nothing. Anglo brilliantly theorized that he would put the image on asap so if caught it would look like his computer. The law firm's logo might be a tip off.