TalkTalk Fibre router replacement

[The Don]

For good other reasons (excellent prices for international calls) we have the misfortune to be TalkTalk customers. Although we pay for FTTC service we get slow internet (1.8 mbps, houses either side get 13 and 8 over essentially the same network topology) which at least has been fairly stable.

Our set up is phone line into a BT Openreach fibre modem and hten an ethernet connection between that and a TalkTalk Huwei HG533 wireless ADSL2+ router.

For the last 2 years we have had intermittent issues with the broadband connection as evidenced by a failure for the Openreach fibre modem to sycn (the DSL light goes out). Under these circumstances we have maintained our Local wireless network (so we can print and share files) but have lost internet connectivity.

We now have new symptoms. Now the wifi signal itself varies significantly (it can drop to zero on my laptop which is a metre away from the router) so that wifi is effectively useless more than 5m from the router and even then drops regularly. Also wired connectivity via ethernet cable to the router drops regularly (several times an hour). Looking at the router it seems to drop all ports at the same time. To repeat, whether wired or wireless we lose our local area network several times an hour.

I have spoken to Talktalk and they are their usual useless selves. They claim to have detected a fault on the telephone line which is the cause of the problem. I insist that whether or not there is internet connection, the local area network should still work. I think the router is knackered and have demanded a new one.

Looking online I have seen many reviews saying that the Talktalk modem is rubbish. For less than £100 I could presumably buy a better modem from another company. Is there anyone on this board who could recommend a replacement for the Huwei HG533 ?

The D-Link we had before we changed to fibre was an excellent modem for example but I don't know what the alternatives would be.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Why do you connect to a router, then to another router? Why not connect directly to the TalkTalk router?

 

[Cuddles]

Why do you connect to a router, then to another router? Why not connect directly to the TalkTalk router?

BT fibre-to-cabinet requires it's own modem that then connects to a proper router. Not sure exactly why, but for some reason it doesn't seem to work with the normal phoneline straight to router setup that ADSL uses.

As for recommendations, I used a third party one for a while after my TalkTalk one exploded, but I'm with BT now so it's in a box somewhere and I can't remember what it actually was. But whatever it is I can definitely recommend it for anyone who prefers their routers unexploded. You shouldn't need to spend more than £50 or so to get a pretty decent one.

 

[The Don]

Why do you connect to a router, then to another router? Why not connect directly to the TalkTalk router?

I do connect directly to the Talktalk router (either wirelessly or via ethernet cable). The Talktalk router is connected to the Openreach fibre modem. The openreach fibre modem is connected to my phone line.

The Talktalk router shows that the WAN connection (via the openreach modem) has been up for the last 2 days, the LAN and wireless connections are dropping several times an hour.

To me it seems that if I could replace the TalkTalk router with something fit for purpose then some of my problems will be solved and I'l be back to having a slow but reliable internet connection. Talktalk on the other hand insist that if the openreach modem loses its DSL synch then the LAN (wired and wifi) will also come down - this I doubt

The attached is a poor representation of my current setup.

 

[The Don]

I've seen a TPLink TL-WDR4300 recommended.

If my talktalk modem exploded that'd be preferable, at least it would be doing *something*

 

[Soapy Sam]

Practically any router from a major manufacturer and under 2 years old should give you high speed wireless LAN .
We have a Netgear D6300, but that coincided with a £100 premium bond win or I'd have got something far cheaper.
But no router will solve your Net access problems, as you know. (Mine is actually slower than yours, if it's any comfort. )

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I've been having problems with my talktalk router for the last week or so too. I'm not fibre though, and I'll be moving house soon and ridding myself of talktalk

 

[The Don]

Practically any router from a major manufacturer and under 2 years old should give you high speed wireless LAN .
We have a Netgear D6300, but that coincided with a £100 premium bond win or I'd have got something far cheaper.
But no router will solve your Net access problems, as you know. (Mine is actually slower than yours, if it's any comfort. )

Thanks, I might take myself off to do some shopping.

You're right I'm not expecting it to make my internet connection any quicker or any more reliable. At the moment (judging by the DSL light on the openreach modem and the router log) that connection has been up for at least 2 days (when I last rebooted the router) so the reliability of the connection seems to be there. I have another call with openreach about the speed (which has dropped from 2.4 to 1.8 mbps in the last two weeks).

What I hope a new router will do is to restore the wi-fi range back to where it was (so it covers the whole house not just 2 rooms) and so it doen't keep dropping the wi-fi altogether and the LAN connections so there is no LAN in the house several times an hour.

 

[Tolls]

Talktalk on the other hand insist that if the openreach modem loses its DSL synch then the LAN (wired and wifi) will also come down - this I doubt

That's gibberish, surely?
I can switch our OpenReach modem off and the LAN (via whatever those black BT boxes are) is still functioning.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I do connect directly to the Talktalk router (either wirelessly or via ethernet cable). The Talktalk router is connected to the Openreach fibre modem. The openreach fibre modem is connected to my phone line.

Why is the modem in there at all? Why not connect both your computer and your phone line to the TalkTalk router?

 

[The Don]

I've been having problems with my talktalk router for the last week or so too. I'm not fibre though, and I'll be moving house soon and ridding myself of talktalk

I would wish myself rid of Talktalk (they increased my monthly "core" charge by 20% this month) but unfortunately in addition to a cruddy internet service I do get unlimited free international calls (useful if you have US and German clients and US inlaws) and 100 free minutes to UK mobiles.

Their prices are comparatively reasonable so for £26.50 a month I get Fibre broadband (which gives me 1.8mbps instead of 1-1.2mbps), youview (including the rubbish Sky channels no-one wants to watch), voicemail , caller id, international calls and mobile. Plus, due to the rubbishness of the service I typically get rebates and so on.

 

[The Don]

Why is the modem in there at all? Why not connect both your computer and your phone line to the TalkTalk router?

Because I have a fibre to the cabinet service and the operreach modem is somehow required. Like Cuddles I'm not sure why

According to this page: http://www.thebmwz3.co.uk/article.php?story=20120419102835860

This isn't a router or anything smart, its a very simple modem, the LAN1 port presents a PPPOE connection for you to handle authentication, etc, to your ISP. All other ports are blocked off and not in use on the device.

edited to add......

according to BT: http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/...1/~/why-do-i-need-a-separate-openreach-modem?

The Openreach modem lets you use high-speed Internet over BT’s Fibre optic network. It supports a technology called Very High Speed Digital Subscriber Line 2 (VDSL2). It translates this data from the language of VDSL2 into one that your BT Business Fibre Hub can understand. In turn, your Fibre Hub talks to devices like your computers.

I presume that the BT Business Fibre Hub does the same job as the Huwei HG533 wireless ADSL2+ router

 

[The Don]

That's gibberish, surely?
I can switch our OpenReach modem off and the LAN (via whatever those black BT boxes are) is still functioning.

Yes, in fact on the days we've lost our phone service entirely, we've still had a LAN (ethernet and wi-fi). The people on the other end of the phone seem to be (even) less knowledgeable than I am.

I think that if the router keeps dropping the ethernet connections, keeps dropping wi-fi entirely and offers a significantly weaker w-fi signal than before then there is some kind of problem with the router itself. I cannot be certain but it seems that any kind of disruption (a new device connecting or whatever) throws it into a tizzy. Maybe it having a hard time assigning IP addresses so it ends up with conflicts or something - who knows.

 

[a_unique_person]

Because I have a fibre to the cabinet service and the operreach modem is somehow required. Like Cuddles I'm not sure why

According to this page: http://www.thebmwz3.co.uk/article.php?story=20120419102835860




edited to add......

according to BT: http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/...1/~/why-do-i-need-a-separate-openreach-modem?



I presume that the BT Business Fibre Hub does the same job as the Huwei HG533 wireless ADSL2+ router

There seems to be some labelling shenanigans going on here.

If I am correct.

1: You don't see any fibre connection at all.
2: The "Fibre" lable on you Huawei router is nothing to do with Fibre, it's just a marketing ploy to distract you from the fact that you don't have a direct fibre connection.

You have a plain old ADSL connection to an external box that the real fibre connects to. This ADSL connection is over the old phone copper phone lines that have served your residence well for many decades, and are probable aged and need some attention.

The router is a piece of junk, but may have been 'fixed' to ensure you don't get up to any shenanigans with your cheap phone service, in which case it is essential.

Given that you have a system that is not working, why have they not sent a human out there to thoroughly test your service? That is what needs to be done. They hate doing it, because it actually costs them money. You have to complain a lot, using all available options. Tell them you want to lodge an official complaint. This will cost them more money to handle all the complaints than it costs them to send someone out.

I have a cable internet connection, and the cable modem and wireless router are the one piece of 'free' equipment.

The wireless router is a piece of rubbish. I have disable the router functions on it, and now send the modem output direcetly to a new ASUS top of the line wireless router, that does everything the old wireless router was useless at.

I was also having the external connection fail, the technician came out and replaced the connecting hardware at our end. We live near the seaside, so we do get above average salt in the air.

It's all working really well now.

 

[The Don]

AUP

Yes, you are correct, I have the FFTC (fibre to the cabinet) service which is, as you point out fibre to the cabinet in the local village and then the final 2.2km is over the same cruddy, much repaired, stops working when it gets wet copper cable which has served the local population very poorly for years. So far in the 2 1/2 years we've lived here, we've had more than 40 BT engineer visits to our property (I keep track, yesterday's was the 43rd) with our next door neighbour having a similar number. The local engineers believe that the whole lot needs replacing but as a small group of rural properties it is not worth while. My local MP who is a member of the telecoms committee (and who, despite his party affiliation is a good MP) has attempted to intervene on our behalf and got the same answer.

Getting a BT Openreach engineer out is very easy, getting a Talktalk engineer is much more difficult. A week ago I booked one for 23 June, the earliest available date, but I don't hold out any expectation of competence. I already have a complaint in process as well but thank you for the tip.

I've just had a text from Royal Mail, a replacement wireless router is on its way. I will see if this makes a difference. At the moment the existing router throws a tizzy-fit and repeatedly drops all connections (wired and wireless) whenever there's any change to the connection landscape. So if Mrs Don has a quick surf on her tablet, my wired connection becomes unstable for the next half hour or so. As far as I can tell, the underlying connection is robust (insofar as the router shows it has been stable since the last reboot).

 

[Cuddles]

You have a plain old ADSL connection to an external box that the real fibre connects to. This ADSL connection is over the old phone copper phone lines that have served your residence well for many decades, and are probable aged and need some attention.

No. See The Don's post #12. He has a VDSL2 connection, not ADSL. Hence the need for an additional modem to translate to something a regular ADSL router can handle. Of course, this doesn't explain why they don't just use a router that can handle VDSL natively.

Given that you have a system that is not working, why have they not sent a human out there to thoroughly test your service?

The main reason is likely that TalkTalk suck.

 

[Salerio]

Here's how it works in the UK, through BT Open Reach. With Fiber to the Cabinet (FTTC) you get your internet access through one of the Big Green boxes out on the road rather than a copper connection going all the way back to your exchange. So the copper part of the circuit should only be a couple of hundred metres or so (depending where you live) and the connection back to the exchange is run through fibre (hence FTTC).

The access protocol is different to that supported by ADSL and different to ethernet - although the presentation on the FTTC master socket in your building looks like an ethernet connection.

Cheap routers don't support the protocol (VDSL2) so when the BT guy comes round he will leave you a VDSL2 modem which converts the FTTC connection into Ethernet Cat5. Your cheap router can then be connected to the modem via the WAN port. The WAN port needs to be able to support PPPoE and PAP/CHAP authentication (it's still DSL afterall). Better routers that directly support VDSL2 can connect directly to the master socket via a standard Cat5 patch lead. I like the Vigor routers, but you're paying around £250 rather than £30 like the ones Talk-Talk give you.

 

[The Don]

Well the new router arrived today, nearly a week earlier than expected. It's a different model than the last one, this is an HG635 Super Router !!11!1!!!

Setup was easy, all devices seem to be working and the wi-fi range seems acceptable. I now have a 2.4GHz network and a 5 GHz network. Mrs. Don is happy to let things lie - I think we should get a better router - I will prevail, eventually

 

[CORed]

Well the new router arrived today, nearly a week earlier than expected. It's a different model than the last one, this is an HG635 Super Router !!11!1!!!

Setup was easy, all devices seem to be working and the wi-fi range seems acceptable. I now have a 2.4GHz network and a 5 GHz network. Mrs. Don is happy to let things lie - I think we should get a better router - I will prevail, eventually

Well if it's a Super Router it's got to be good.

 

[CORed]

Well if it's a Super Router it's got to be good.

Look! on the desk! It's modem. It's switch. It's Super Router!
Faster than a ping on the Lan.
More powerful than a DDOS attack.
Able to leap tall firewalls with a single bound.

Fighting for truth justice, and the Internet Way.