Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[acbytesla]

Yup, and the baselines for 544 and 570 are relatively high. And, she abandoned the Real Time machine after she analyzed each of these runs. So, what does that tell us about what she thought about the reliability of the quantification data for, e.g., 165b?

And, why was her baseline jumping up by a magnitude of 30%?

You ask very good questions. But I keep wondering if a DNA lab tech would actually find anything strange about all this. That fine tuning the machine is always a reality and that we're making a mountain out of a mole hill. I really want someone like Greg Hampikian to weigh in on your discovery.

I feel like I might possibly be getting excited needlessly.

 

[Diocletus]

But I keep wondering if a DNA lab tech would actually find anything strange about all this. That fine tuning the machine is always a reality and that we're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

A lab tech might not find anything unusual about this, I don't know.

But, a lawyer defending his client against charges that could put his client in jail for the rest of her young life might take a different view.

 

[acbytesla]

A lab tech might not find anything unusual about this, I don't know.

But, a lawyer defending his client against charges that could put his client in jail for the rest of her young life might take a different view.

Yea..but would a judge? I'm really trying to pick apart your argument Diocletus. I know I'm not really equipped to do so and I'm quite impressed with the whole thing. But there is this nagging thing going on in my head thinking that this has all been gone over by people like Greg Hampikian and C&V even though all of these people believes that there was contamination, none of them have pointed out these issues that you have identified.

I keep wondering if you are a brilliant mind who has found something that some very smart people didn't for one reason or another or have you identified something that seems fishy to your and my eyes but in reality isn't.

It might be embarrassing to find out from say Greg Hampikian that your analysis is flawed in some way or another, but given that your a gifted amateur, I wouldn't necessarily take that negatively. I still find it impressive.

BTW, I hope very much that you are right in every way. Almost every day I read about scientific discoveries. I read science journals almost every day and I can tell you that the vast majority of them aren't quite the great discovery that the scientists thought they were. But they keep advancing science never the less.

 

[Diocletus]

Yea..but would a judge? I'm really trying to pick apart your argument Diocletus. I know I'm not really equipped to do so and I'm quite impressed with the whole thing. But there is this nagging thing going on in my head thinking that this has all been gone over by people like Greg Hampikian and C&V even though all of these people believes that there was contamination, none of them have pointed out these issues that you have identified.

I keep wondering if you are a brilliant mind who has found something that some very smart people didn't for one reason or another or have you identified something that seems fishy to your and my eyes but in reality isn't.

It might be embarrassing to find out from say Greg Hampikian that your analysis is flawed in some way or another, but given that your a gifted amateur, I wouldn't necessarily take that negatively. I still find it impressive.

BTW, I hope very much that you are right in every way. Almost every day I read about scientific discoveries. I read science journals almost every day and I can tell you that the vast majority of them aren't quite the great discovery that the scientists thought they were. But they keep advancing science never the less.

Don't worry. This is all subject to adversarial review. Why, I've been expecting for months that the guilters would respond with some sort of substantive refutation, but so far it's just been crickets. But, I'm sure they have their resident DNA expert, Greggy, working on all of this as we speak. Or, maybe the Parisian Math Lady is cooking up a new formula to prove that this is all wrong, and instead, Knox and Sollecito are guilty if Washington's head appears on the US Quarter.

 

[Bill Williams]

Don't worry. This is all subject to adversarial review. Why, I've been expecting for months that the guilters would respond with some sort of substantive refutation, but so far it's just been crickets. But, I'm sure they have their resident DNA expert, Greggy, working on all of this as we speak. Or, maybe the Parisian Math Lady is cooking up a new formula to prove that this is all wrong, and instead, Knox and Sollecito are guilty if Washington's head appears on the US Quarter.

...... which is what me, a complete ignoramus and simpleton to these things, must wait for.

As for the guilters..... I keep waiting for them to say something substantive. The Machne/Harry Rag has weighed in on this, but according to his common practise not with anything other than a question - strangely the same question....

.... Why did C&V not cover this? Fear of prosecution? No such fear exists for that other guy, not unless Idaho has suddenly come into the Italian sphere of influence.

 

[acbytesla]

Don't worry. This is all subject to adversarial review. Why, I've been expecting for months that the guilters would respond with some sort of substantive refutation, but so far it's just been crickets. But, I'm sure they have their resident DNA expert, Greggy, working on all of this as we speak. Or, maybe the Parisian Math Lady is cooking up a new formula to prove that this is all wrong, and instead, Knox and Sollecito are guilty if Washington's head appears on the US Quarter.

I really could care less what they have to say Diocletus, I think they are less equipped to understand or comment on this than I am.

You Chris, Rolfe and Dan and Planigale seem to be the best on the DNA and you all are light years better than any or the guilters. Still, I'd feel a lot better hearing from a real DNA expert on this. Someone who has worked in DNA forensics as part of their career.

 

[Dopre]

I really could care less what they have to say Diocletus, I think they are less equipped to understand or comment on this than I am.

You Chris, Rolfe and Dan and Planigale seem to be the best on the DNA and you all are light years better than any or the guilters. Still, I'd feel a lot better hearing from a real DNA expert on this. Someone who has worked in DNA forensics as part of their career.

My first comment here. I admit I am intimidated at weighing in here. Much of the analysis goes beyond my understanding, although I think I understand the gist.

Bruce indicated in the last day or so that this information had been passed on to the defense teams. If true, I can't imagine that the revelations uncovered here haven't been vetted in some manner by an expert or two? Can you speak to this Diocletus?

Thanks.

 

[acbytesla]

My first comment here. I admit I am intimidated at weighing in here. Much of the analysis goes beyond my understanding, although I think I understand the gist.

Bruce indicated in the last day or so that this information had been passed on to the defense teams. If true, I can't imagine that the revelations uncovered here haven't been vetted in some manner by an expert or two? Can you speak to this Diocletus?

Thanks.

Welcome aboard Dopre. Don't worry. We won't bite... Well some of us do...but you will survive.

 

[Planigale]

I really could care less what they have to say Diocletus, I think they are less equipped to understand or comment on this than I am.

You Chris, Rolfe and Dan and Planigale seem to be the best on the DNA and you all are light years better than any or the guilters. Still, I'd feel a lot better hearing from a real DNA expert on this. Someone who has worked in DNA forensics as part of their career.

I once did a weeks course on gene typing so I understand the theory but not the practice. We did not use this machine and forensic typing has its own issues. So yes we need a proper forensic DNA practitioner ideally one old enough to know how they did things in 2007 and used this machine.

 

[acbytesla]

I once did a weeks course on gene typing so I understand the theory but not the practice. We did not use this machine and forensic typing has its own issues. So yes we need a proper forensic DNA practitioner ideally one old enough to know how they did things in 2007 and used this machine.

It would really be nice to hear from someone who used that machine often and what their experience was with it. I do believe that something very fishy went on with the testing and wish this proved it.....but without their commentary, I'm left wondering if my jumping on this bandwagon isn't just wishful thinking.

 

[Lensman]

Long ton or short ton, or (given that you Limeys are always adding unnecessary letters to God-fearing, perfectly good 'Merican words) a tonne?

Go to Gaol, do no pass Go.....

Nah - wuzznt us Limeys, tonne is the Euro spelling for a metric ton.

 

[acbytesla]

Nah - wuzznt us Limeys, tonne is the Euro spelling for a metric ton.

There you all go with the metric system mumbo jumbo. When are you all going to figure it out that it's time to go back to inches, feet, yards and miles? Couldn't you figure out that the metric conversion has been a failure since the US hasn't joined your party?

 

[Strozzi]

My first comment here. I admit I am intimidated at weighing in here. Much of the analysis goes beyond my understanding, although I think I understand the gist.

Bruce indicated in the last day or so that this information had been passed on to the defense teams. If true, I can't imagine that the revelations uncovered here haven't been vetted in some manner by an expert or two? Can you speak to this Diocletus?

Thanks.

Somebody must be monitoring this discussion for the prosecution, as their reputation is at risk. Maybe they will have a real expert on contamination, such as Stefanoni's supervisor Dr. Biondo, advise them. What do you think he would say? Maybe "Destroy the plates"

I hope they are not relying on Dr. Tesla or the receptionist at the London hair salon who is one of the British guilters' declared DNA experts.

 

[Diocletus]

My first comment here. I admit I am intimidated at weighing in here. Much of the analysis goes beyond my understanding, although I think I understand the gist.

Bruce indicated in the last day or so that this information had been passed on to the defense teams. If true, I can't imagine that the revelations uncovered here haven't been vetted in some manner by an expert or two? Can you speak to this Diocletus?

Thanks.

I think they've had an opportunity to see it; after all, it's on the wiki. But that's all I know.

 

[Grinder]

I hope they are not relying on Dr. Tesla or the receptionist at the London hair salon who is one of the British guilters' declared DNA experts.

A subject I can comment on finally - Laura Wray worked in Milan and called herself Nikki (sp?) - it would be a toss up between them though I'd have to go with...

 

[acbytesla]

Somebody must be monitoring this discussion for the prosecution, as their reputation is at risk. Maybe they will have a real expert on contamination, such as Stefanoni's supervisor Dr. Biondo, advise them. What do you think he would say? Maybe "Destroy the plates"

Funny...but they probably already did that.

 

[acbytesla]

A subject I can comment on finally - Laura Wray worked in Milan and called herself Nikki (sp?) - it would be a toss up between them though I'd have to go with...

Hi Grinder. I've been waiting to see you weigh in. I've had to take over your role as the big skeptic.

 

[Grinder]

I'd like to add a few other lawsuits that should be filed:

1. The word processing hardware and software as the manufacturers should clearly have seen the misuse of their technology.

2. The gift paper manufacturer should have recognized that their paper wasn't free of DNA from the factory.

3. The booty makers as they were not being used properly.

4. The glove manufacturers.

By suing every company that anything to do with the case every aspect of the case could be detailed in the suits' complaints.

 

[Lensman]

There you all go with the metric system mumbo jumbo. When are you all going to figure it out that it's time to go back to inches, feet, yards and miles? Couldn't you figure out that the metric conversion has been a failure since the US hasn't joined your party?

I always use the Imperial system & mentally convert to metric if I need to - at least I still use the proper pound (weight) instead of the smaller US pound

(to our cousins over the pond, a pint's a pound the world around (it isn't really) to us who invented it, a pint of water weighs a pound & a quarter)

Sorry for the derail.

 

[Strozzi]

I'd like to add a few other lawsuits that should be filed:

1. The word processing hardware and software as the manufacturers should clearly have seen the misuse of their technology.

2. The gift paper manufacturer should have recognized that their paper wasn't free of DNA from the factory.

3. The booty makers as they were not being used properly.

4. The glove manufacturers.

By suing every company that anything to do with the case every aspect of the case could be detailed in the suits' complaints.

A DNA analyzer should be able to detect that it is being fed LCN DNA and every result generated from it should caution/warn that it is LCN and state "This instrument is not designed to process LCN and the resultant output data is suspect". Evan a deaf Italian judge should be able to read that.

It is foreseeable that the machine may be misused to process and evaluate forensic evidence, and there should be no design leeway for it to be misused that way.