Proof of Immortality II

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abaddon said:
Jabba will not answer.

Jabba will not answer.

Jabba will not answer.

Jabba will not answer.

Jabba will not answer.

Jabba will not answer.

Jabba will not answer.

Jabba will not answer.

Jabba will not answer.

Jabba will not answer.

Jabba will not answer.

I trust my answers are sufficient?
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You're prolly right, but he eventually abandoned his Table Cloth of Turin thread after being utterly unable to support his position.

IMO, he has even less evidence or logic for immortality than he did for the authenticity of the Turin Table Cloth.

What's up with that, Jabba?
 
Jabba said:
- IOW, there is something about this sense of self that is not defined by brain chemistry.
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Jabba, remember how the sense of self is defined?
It's an emergent property of a functioning neurosystem.



Jabba said:
- To what extent do you guys accept strong emergence?
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What do you mean by strong emergence?
 
Jabba said:
- To what extent do you guys accept strong emergence?
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Jabba, my father is 80 and he is in what is euphamisticly referred to as end of life care, or in other words shortly to be dead.

As a man in life, he had not a jot of violence to offer to anyone. He never raised a hand to me nor my siblings. It was my priviledge to speak to him heart to heart. But he knows he is done. He knows that it is a matter of time and he accepts it. Such is the way of things.

When the time comes, I will proudly step up and salute a deeply gentle, gentle man.

Where the hell are you going?

And I know you won't answer.
 
Jabba said:
- I had thought that you guys new about that weak/strong breakdown. I'm using the Wikipedia definition/description of "strong emergence." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence#Strong_and_weak_emergence
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What do YOU, personally, think the Wiki says?

What do YOU, personally, think the Wiki means?

(Hint: if you are trying to sneak a "magic", transcendent, non-corporeal, non-neurosystem-dependent "special quality" in; that is, to point at "strong emergence" as the place where the "soul" you are claiming exists is, in fact, hiding; then, you know--now is time and waaaaay past time for you to lay out your evidence.)

BTW, that's a lovely tie you wore this morning...

ETA: have you read this?
http://www.iep.utm.edu/emergenc/
 
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Jabba said:
- I had thought that you guys new about that weak/strong breakdown. I'm using the Wikipedia definition/description of "strong emergence." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence#Strong_and_weak_emergence
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1. As Ahenaten says, no you are not.

2. No you are not, because you have never raised it before; if you were using one side of a two sided coin, you would have realized we were using the other. This is you flailing about and finding something new, something you do not understand, to latch on to.

3. The sources for strong emergence as something separate from consciousness comprise a philosophy paper in a philosophy journal and possibly a book (not a peer reviewed article) by a physicist. I say possibly because descriptions of the book do not lead me to think that the physicist is saying what you claim.
 
- The reason I've resorted to even fewer and shorter posts is that I've promised my wife to give her needs more of my time. She has all sorts of cleaning, gardening and landscaping that she wants to do but that she needs help with...
- I hadn't said anything about it cause you guys haven't wanted to hear my excuses.
 
Jabba said:
- The reason I've resorted to even fewer and shorter posts is that I've promised my wife to give her needs more of my time. She has all sorts of cleaning, gardening and landscaping that she wants to do but that she needs help with...
- I hadn't said anything about it cause you guys haven't wanted to hear my excuses.
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Good Morning, Mr. Savage!

I am turly impressed with your familial dedication, and think that is a fine quality to exercise...

Why not take a break, marshal your arguments, gather your evidence, and, when you have all your ducks in a row, come back and present your actual evidence that the "soul" exists?
 
Jabba said:
- The reason I've resorted to even fewer and shorter posts is that I've promised my wife to give her needs more of my time. She has all sorts of cleaning, gardening and landscaping that she wants to do but that she needs help with...
- I hadn't said anything about it cause you guys haven't wanted to hear my excuses.
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You are a fantastic husband and a really wonderful guy. How do you understand the concept of "strong emergence"?
 
Jabba said:
- The reason I've resorted to even fewer and shorter posts is that I've promised my wife to give her needs more of my time. She has all sorts of cleaning, gardening and landscaping that she wants to do but that she needs help with...
- I hadn't said anything about it cause you guys haven't wanted to hear my excuses.
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An explanation offered in defence of some fault or offensive behaviour or as a reason for not fulfilling an obligation
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http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/excuse
 
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Jabba said:
- The reason I've resorted to even fewer and shorter posts is that I've promised my wife to give her needs more of my time. She has all sorts of cleaning, gardening and landscaping that she wants to do but that she needs help with...
- I hadn't said anything about it cause you guys haven't wanted to hear my excuses.
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How very convenient. The honest thing to do would be to admit you haven't any evidence and then retire with a sliver of integrity. You can't even manage that.
 
Jabba said:
- The reason I've resorted to even fewer and shorter posts is that I've promised my wife to give her needs more of my time. She has all sorts of cleaning, gardening and landscaping that she wants to do but that she needs help with...
- I hadn't said anything about it cause you guys haven't wanted to hear my excuses.
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Jabba, cleaning, gardening and landscaping are all great activities and well worth spending time on.
While you're doing them, why not ponder the nature of consciousness, which is an emergent property of a functioning neurosystem?
 
Jabba said:
- The reason I've resorted to even fewer and shorter posts is that I've promised my wife to give her needs more of my time. She has all sorts of cleaning, gardening and landscaping that she wants to do but that she needs help with...
- I hadn't said anything about it cause you guys haven't wanted to hear my excuses.
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I'm skeptical by nature, and especially so when I read your posts.

You have so many reasons why you can't support your claims in the OP! You ought to write a book about it.

Appeals to your wife's needs only make your last 18 months of interlocution more obviously pointless.

Admit that you have failed to support your claims of immortality and the authenticity of the T-Shirt of Turin.

Tend to your wife, and be done with it.
 
Jabba said:
- Thanks, George. I hope you weren't kidding. But, that is a way to get me to respond -- flattery helps...
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Jabba said:
- The reason I've resorted to even fewer and shorter posts is that I've promised my wife to give her needs more of my time. She has all sorts of cleaning, gardening and landscaping that she wants to do but that she needs help with...
- I hadn't said anything about it cause you guys haven't wanted to hear my excuses.
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Helping your family is a totally acceptable excuse for not responding.

Insufficient flattery is not. Nor is insufficient (as you measure it) respect.

Those are the excuses we don't want to hear.
 
xtifr said:
There is no "instant of consciousness". Consciousness is a process. It continues until it stops, like running.
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- I should have said "first instant of consciousness." Would that help?
 
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Jabba said:
- I should have said "first instant of consciousness." Would that help?
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Good Morning, Mr. Savage!

What a fine, thoughtful, and insightful question you have asked!

It is unfortunate that my answer must be, "No, it would not help."

What would "help", at this point, would be for you to provide concrete, practical, empirical, objective evidence that the "soul" exists, and is "immortal".

Thanks!
 
Jabba said:
- I should have said "first instant of consciousness." Would that help?
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About as much as "We should move" would have helped the residents of Tunguska in the first instant of them noticing a really large meteorite or the crew of the Titanic saying "We ought to slow down a bit" in the first instant of their iceberginess.

You're flogging an eohippus, Jabba. Give it a rest.
 
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