Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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acbytesla said:
I honestly think it is a whole lot of guessing, The only thing I know for sure is that these people should have been identified and asked if they saw or heard anything unusual that night. Do they remember what made them look backwards.

Beyond that we are just playing a game of "I wonder".
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I agree. My best made up guess would be noise but not the 25 minute death scream. Noises that were alarming but not extremely loud. An occasional shout, whimpering, sobbing, maybe pleading? But mostly soft enough to not alarm the people into calling the authorities. Just a domestic dispute, nothing to see here, move along. That kind of thing.

The window was broken at this point making these types of noises audible across the street.

Another question though, didn't Meredith get home at 9:00? Rudy was supposedly in the house before she got there. This sequence of film ends 1 hour and 5 minutes after that! It gets weirder doesn't it?
 
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The CCTV camera is slow, so we have to add 12 minutes or so to the times displayed on the images.

IMO, Meredith was long dead by this time.

My guess would be that what people are looking at has something to do with the car that broke down opposite the Cottage driveway. If so, it would move the time when they broke down to before 10 pm. The only problem with that hypothesis is that one would expect people to be looking in that direction for a long time after 10 pm as well.

The car break down has always struck me as a very unlikely coincidence, as was the bomb threat phone call coincidence which BTW we still do not know the exact timing of. Maybe that will surface one of these days.

I cannot imagine a legitimate reason why the police would not want to know what the people in the CCTV camera were looking at.

As I recall the police also said recordings from other CCTV sites were of no importance, and hence never made available for viewing by anyone except the police.

Cody
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C'mon people, at least humour me.... why is no one discussing Nencini's motivation report?

It's clear why the guilters are not.
 
carbonjam72 said:
How long might a scream have lasted?

Weren't there indications of some sort of chase inside the cottage, a knocked over chair, etc?

Could there have been a stand-off of some sort, like on opposite sides of a kitchen table or some other obstruction, where Guede couldn't get to Meredith, and she just kept screaming at the top of her lungs for help? If so, would she be screaming in Italian, or just screaming in english for help and incoherently sounding to Italians?

Just wondering why the assumption that any screaming or disturbance had to be short lived.

Meredith Kercher was said to have a great deal of bruising on her body, including a serious punch in the mouth. Doesn't sound consistent with a short struggle after being taken by surprise, before she's then quickly killed.

Just asking...
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If there had been a prolonged struggle, the inside of the house would have shown it. Many things knocked over or askew, items broken as one defends herself from another, etc.

The kitchen chair was knocked over. If more had occurred in the kitchen, more items would have indicated it. I think Rudy at least at first moved through the house with the lights off. In the dark kitchen he knocked over the chair. There is no evidence indicating collision with anything else. No evidence of struggle except in Meredith's room.
 
Anode said:
I agree. My best made up guess would be noise but not the 25 minute death scream. Noises that were alarming but not extremely loud. An occasional shout, whimpering, sobbing, maybe pleading? But mostly soft enough to not alarm the people into calling the authorities. Just a domestic dispute, nothing to see here, move along. That kind of thing.
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I agree Anode. But it really could have been anything. And people almost never respond. Car alarms go off and they are ignored. There was a murder about a block from my house. The man killed his girlfriend inside the house . No one heard it. On of my neighbors went nuts two days ago and screamed out loud at another neighbor for a half hour. (They took her away for a psych eval). I heard her and I ignored the whole thing.
Anode said:
The window was broken at this point making these types of noises audible across the street.
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I think the window being broken may have made a difference to noises or screams being able to to be heard. But if Filomena's door was closed..probably not. Sound and how it carried from inside the house to across the street should have been reviewed in detail.
Anode said:
Another question though, didn't Meredith get home at 9:00? Rudy was supposedly in the house before she got there. This sequence of film ends 1 hour and 5 minutes after that! It gets weirder doesn't it?
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Yes it does.
 
Bill Williams said:
C'mon people, at least humour me.... why is no one discussing Nencini's motivation report?

It's clear why the guilters are not.
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The report, the defense response, the ISC timeline isn't spoken of, or is an unknown.
Even the Rudy encouraged media comments were something new. It seems the Perugia Media Leaks have dwindled so much.

They don't have Amanda in prison, nor Raffaele... the guilters should throw a party for Rudy, maybe Maresca will lick his shoes upon release.
 
Just have to say it again...

Anode said:
A standoff maybe, but chasing her around the apartment screaming for 25 minutes?? I can run over 3 miles in 25 minutes. And I have to assume that realistically 25 minutes of death screams would have surely brought the police. One would hope anyway.

Yet it has to be something of interest. People are purposely turning and looking. I wish we had a photo of what exactly their view was. Does everyone stop and look regardless of day/time? Is it a beautiful view of the canyon? Or can you just see the street and cottage indicating some remarkable activity?

Again, here I am with more questions than answers...

ETA: I brought up Google Maps and they are indeed looking right at the area where the broken window was and Meredith's room.
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Is there any info on whether Meredith's shutters were closed? Could they actually, maybe have seen and heard the actual murder through Meredith's window, and not realized it was a murder?

Hear some yelling, pay attention. Yelling stops, stop paying attention. Who thinks murder off the bat, even though it was (hypothetically)?

Also, if there's a stand-off, then there must be a chase, which terminates in the bedroom. That doesn't necessarily mean huge fight or disruption outside of Meredith's bedroom. Just a standoff, that at some point is disrupted because Guede compromises the barrier of defense (otherwise, it remains a standoff).

And a chase can be fast, they don't have to be running a 3 mile chinese fire drill around the kitchen table. :D

The violent bruising to Meredith's mouth and violent slash to the neck, are both indications of extreme anger/urgency by Guede towards Meredith's mouth and and throat (ie her ability to scream). Her screaming madly for help could be an understandable trigger for Rudy to need to stop her from yelling for help, because his life would literally depend on silencing her.

I'm sorry, but this makes more and more sense to me the more I ponder.

Of course, could be all wrong in an instant. But I'm not seeing any holes yet.
 
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I am sorry, I don't think there was any sort of 25 minute confrontational.
I suspect that whatever happened, it was pretty quick. Most likely just a few minutes.
 
carbonjam72 said:
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Is there any info on whether Meredith's shutters were closed? Could they actually, maybe have seen and heard the actual murder through Meredith's window, and not realized it was a murder?

Hear some yelling, pay attention. Yelling stops, stop paying attention. Who thinks murder off the bat, even though it was (hypothetically)?

Also, if there's a stand-off, then there must be a chase, which terminates in the bedroom. That doesn't necessarily mean huge fight or disruption outside of Meredith's bedroom. Just a standoff, that at some point is disrupted because Guede compromises the barrier of defense (otherwise, it remains a standoff).

And a chase can be fast, they don't have to be running a 3 mile chinese fire drill around the kitchen table. :D

The violent bruising to Meredith's mouth and violent slash to the neck, are both indications of extreme anger/urgency by Guede towards Meredith's mouth and and throat (ie her ability to scream). Her screaming madly for help could be an understandable trigger for Rudy to need to stop her from yelling for help, because his life would literally depend on silencing her.

I'm sorry, but this makes more and more sense to me the more I ponder.

Of course, could be all wrong in an instant. But I'm not seeing any holes yet.
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I think anything is possible...but we well never know. The time has past and I have to think if anyone remembers anything from that evening today, there is no way to know if they created it in in their own mind or not.
 
acbytesla said:
I think anything is possible...but we well never know. The time has past and I have to think if anyone remembers anything from that evening today, there is no way to know if they created it in in their own mind or not.
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A witness after only about a year with the Devon Guzman murder wrote something that happened in her diary and that it why they accepted her testimony.
 
Desert Fox said:
A witness after only about a year with the Devon Guzman murder wrote something that happened in her diary and that it why they accepted her testimony.
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Now that is reasonable. At least to a degree. That means it was important enough that they took notice at the time. As a juror, I'd still be a little skeptical.
 
Desert Fox said:
I am sorry, I don't think there was any sort of 25 minute confrontational.
I suspect that whatever happened, it was pretty quick. Most likely just a few minutes.
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I tend to agree, and that is why I wondered about an open door that might be banging in the wind. I don't think that there is a line of sight, from what others have posted.
 
acbytesla said:
Now that is reasonable. At least to a degree. That means it was important enough that they took notice at the time. As a juror, I'd still be a little skeptical.
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If that was all the evidence, I would be skeptical as well.
There is however reasonable decent physical evidence.
One reason why I am extremely skeptical with the Gwendolyn Graham and Cathy Wood case because all you have is she said/she said. . . .
 
Chris_Halkides said:
I tend to agree, and that is why I wondered about an open door that might be banging in the wind. I don't think that there is a line of sight, from what others have posted.
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If you listen / read James Randi, coincidences are actually pretty common.
Maybe there was a domestic argument somewhere or even just a car alarm that will not shut up. Would be nice if there had been follow up.
 
This is what you get on PMF when you ask for the latest DVD be addressed, and suggest it might trump Nara.

Please, just stop with your ********. Nara took diuretics, which is why she woke up every two hours. Please adjust your post accordingly and again, stop spouting ******** here or I will ban you. I loathe bull ********.

Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait point; on le sait en mille choses.

Skeptical Bystander

Asterixes inserted by this site editor. This woman has devoted a good portion of her life to placing Meredith first, yet has this amount of appetite for debating the evidence. The conclusion is she is wedded to an 11 30pm time of death, five hours after dinner. This is medically completely impossible. She must be totally opposed to science.
 
Samson said:
This is what you get on PMF when you ask for the latest DVD be addressed, and suggest it might trump Nara.

Please, just stop with your ********. Nara took diuretics, which is why she woke up every two hours. Please adjust your post accordingly and again, stop spouting ******** here or I will ban you. I loathe bull ********.

Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait point; on le sait en mille choses.

Skeptical Bystander

Asterixes inserted by this site editor. This woman has devoted a good portion of her life to placing Meredith first, yet has this amount of appetite for debating the evidence. The conclusion is she is wedded to an 11 30pm time of death, five hours after dinner. This is medically completely impossible. She must be totally opposed to science insane.
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Ftfy
 
anglolawyer said:
Ftfy
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I know all of us operate with some cognitive dissonance but I just have trouble with the pro guilt crowd on this issue (and other issues) when they go completely against the evidence. Not those directly involved but those with no real skin in the game. I don't know if they consider everybody guilty always?
 
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