Active shooter in New Brunswick

[sadhatter]

Being a normal person, I tend to view all international events through a lens of local experience. How can I see a situation like that without it occurring to me that this is essentially a bi-monthly event in my country?

I sympathize with the victims and will give support to any Canadian in this thread who is affected by this tragedy of course.

Worth pointing out that, so far as I know, this guy is still at large.

If only there was some easily available way of doing this guy at a distance.

" for Canada where we downplay our increasingly frequent gun violence"
Sgt. Straight mccool

 

[Mister Earl]

Many obsequious noises to you, Canada. Hope this ends with no more bloodshed.

 

[Checkmite]

Being a normal person, I tend to view all international events through a lens of local experience. How can I see a situation like that without it occurring to me that this is essentially a bi-monthly event in my country?

Because the universe likes making me feel bad even when I'm right about something, at least 4 people have just been shot at Seattle Pacific University. Word is a suspect is already in custody, though, so there's that.

ETA: the first report erroneously claims today is Friday, which is not confidence inspiring. Accuracy develops over time in these events.

 

[Autolite]

He looks like a badass. Suburban Rambo.

The information we have at this point is still sketchy but here's a gun-guy who says that the suspect's rifle is likely a 'Norinco M14'.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1376131/w...he-photo-of-man-believe-to-be-justin-bourque/

This would agree with an earlier report where a friend commented on Bourque once showing him a 'Chinese made' M14. Under Canadian law, this gun would be classified "Non-Restricted" and legal to own.

This is significant in that, contrary to my earlier comment, this guy could very well be a properly licensed gun owner with a Canadian "Non-Restricted PAL".

The police aren't saying too much right now but it seems to have certainly raised the gun-control issue again...

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dai...ugher-gun-laws-made-difference-213655370.html

 

[Border Reiver]

"After looking at the image distributed by police a military expert believes Bourque appears to be holding a 12-gauge shotgun and a long-range FN C1A1rifle.



Will Lymer, a former Canadian soldier and military expert, said the high-powered rifle uses piercing 7.62 mm ammunition, and used to be standard-issue with the Canadian Forces until it was taken out of service in the 1990s.



“He probably could have purchased this through normal means," Lymer told CTVNews.ca in a telephone interview on Thursday."



http://www.ctvnews.ca/ctv-news-chan...t-what-we-know-about-justin-bourque-1.1854169



Looking at the photo it does indeed appear that the suspect might be carrying an older military style FN C1A1 battle rifle*. However it seems unlikely that it was acquired "through normal means" being that the FN C1A1 rifle has been a prohibited firearm in Canada for many years now. I find it interesting that the so-called "military expert" neglected to mention that little detail.



To legally own a prohibited firearm in Canada one would need a "Prohibited" endorsement on a valid Canadian firearm "Possession/Acquisition License". Something that would be quite rare if even possible for a 24 year old to have (since a prohibited firearm endorsement is generally issued to qualified individuals on a grandfathered basis).



I would be very much surprised if Mr. Bourque has a valid PAL of any sort at all. I suspect this incident might turn out to be just another example of a gun control fail. Of course I could be wrong if the guy actually legally purchased a 'converted automatic' version of the rifle when he was two years old...



(*Selective fire 7.62mm. It was reported that a witness heard 'automatic fire' https://ca.news.yahoo.com/newsalert-manhunt-moncton-n-b-undisclosed-number-people-002523152.html)

As a CF member whose been in long enough to have been trained on the FN C1 (the unit I belong to divested itself of the C1 for the C7 in 1990) I do not believe that the rifle he's carrying is one:

A. No pistol grip;
B. The fore stock looks to be of a different shape (the FN had a triangular cross section);
C. The magazine has the wrong shape (this one is rectangular, the FN's mag had a longer back);
D. The stock doesn't have the right shape; and
E. The flash suppressor is of the wrong shape.

And as an aside, the Canadian FN C1 was not capable of automatic fire - it was a semiautomatic weapon. We did use a LMG variant, but it was quite different in appearance.

 

[casebro]

Looks like the M-14 to me. Same 7.62 x 51 ammo as the FN, anything from armor piercing to deer load or light plinker ammo. Probably G.I. style solid, non-expanding bullets though.

 

[Autolite]

And as an aside, the Canadian FN C1 was not capable of automatic fire - it was a semiautomatic weapon. We did use a LMG variant, but it was quite different in appearance.

I trained with the FNC1 as well but (incorrectly) remember it being a selective fire rifle. You are indeed correct that the FNC1A1 was semi-automatic only. The FNC2 was of course the heavy-barreled selective fire Canadian variant of the FN FAL type of rifles. To the best of my knowledge however, the FNC1A1 is still a "Prohibited" firearm under the Canadian classification system.

If we assume that the witness who 'heard automatic fire' was mistaken, then it seems more likely that the suspect was carrying a Norinco M14 (classified "Non-Restricted"). This would also suggest that it is quite possible Bourque was a licensed gun owner who had legal possession of the rifles.

The RCMP knows whether or not this guy had a gun license but they're not saying anything about it at this point...

 

[Corsair 115]

Update: Justin Bourque, Moncton shooting suspect, in police custody.

'Justin came out with his hands up, and he said, "I'm done,"' eyewitness tells CBC News

 

[Border Reiver]

I trained with the FNC1 as well but (incorrectly) remember it being a selective fire rifle. You are indeed correct that the FNC1A1 was semi-automatic only. The FNC2 was of course the heavy-barreled selective fire Canadian variant of the FN FAL type of rifles. To the best of my knowledge however, the FNC1A1 is still a "Prohibited" firearm under the Canadian classification system.



If we assume that the witness who 'heard automatic fire' was mistaken, then it seems more likely that the suspect was carrying a Norinco M14 (classified "Non-Restricted"). This would also suggest that it is quite possible Bourque was a licensed gun owner who had legal possession of the rifles.



The RCMP knows whether or not this guy had a gun license but they're not saying anything about it at this point...

The C1 is indeed Prohibited. Given the ease with which my Weapons Tech buddy could make one automatic (and back in time for "endex") there may be a good reason for that.

I would posit that person who heard automatic fire was simply mistaken, a series of rapid shots on repetition could sound similar to some one unfamiliar with that sort of shooting.

 

[Belz...]

Update: Justin Bourque, Moncton shooting suspect, in police custody.

'Justin came out with his hands up, and he said, "I'm done,"' eyewitness tells CBC News

Well... I didn't specify when he would die ! And near is relative.

 

[Checkmite]

Some good news to wake up to. Great job, RCMP.

 

[Autolite]

He looks like a truther nut for sure.

Well, the gun control issue here in Canada is a little sensitive right now. There is no way that I condone or support the actions of Mr. Bourque but he represents what might be an undercurrent of growing animosity between law enforcement and Canadian firearm owners.

What happened a few months ago was the reclassification of a "Non-Restricted" rifle to "Prohibited" status based on the 'easily-converted' rationale. It was an expensive semi-automatic Swiss army rifle of some sort and it has many Canadian firearm owners upset.

Couple this with the fact that Canada has a federal election coming up in the near future, with the chance of the anti-gun Liberals forming the next government, and you'll see that things are starting to get stirred up.

In Canada, the Canadian Firearms Program is run by the RCMP with each province having a Chief Firearms Officer (CFO). It's the CFO who determines who may or may not be allowed to legally own firearms. The heart of the matter is that the CFO's are granted the power of 'discretionary rules' meaning that the CFO's can create and enforce their own laws arbitrarily.

It's a case of 'the fox guarding the hen house' and not everybody is completely content with that situation.

Consider also that gun control laws are often mis-applied in a malicious manner. In domestic situations in particular when a spouse will often 'cry-wolf' and have their partner's firearms confiscated out of spite with a false DV accusation during a pending divorce. I've seen this happen a few times and it can be most unsettling for the gun owner.

Making the situation even worse is that the owner could face a very difficult time getting their guns back even after the DV accusation was shown to be false. The CFO can refuse to return the firearms by employing the 'discretionary rules'.

It's actually a very clever (if unethical) move on the part of the CFO as he knows that few gun owners are eager to spend the money on a lawyer to protect their property rights (particularly after a financially crippling divorce settlement)...

 

[William Parcher]

This might be a good enlargement to try to identify the rifle...

 

[Autolite]

This might be a good enlargement to try to identify the rifle...

I had initially suspected that the rifle was an FNC1A1, or an FN FAL variant, because I 'thought' I saw a wooden pistol grip. Border Reiver pointed out a few simple facts on post #25 that convinced me that it isn't an FN.

Other comments and media reports suggest that it is likely a semi-automatic 'Norinco M14' (M305*).

The police haven't yet commented if the guns were legally owned or not. I am wondering if they are waiting for the shock to subside a bit before the inevitable gun control argument gets into high gear again...

* (I've read that the M305 is a popular hunting rifle in Canada. If the gun used in this crime is in fact an M305 and the gun-grabbers decide to target this gun for a ban there's going to be a lot of kicking and screaming going on).

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

This might be a good enlargement to try to identify the rifle...

It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. Doesn't show up on your airport X-ray machines and it cost more than you make in a month.

 

[Stacko]

The police haven't yet commented if the guns were legally owned or not. I am wondering if they are waiting for the shock to subside a bit before the inevitable gun control argument gets into high gear again...

He was unarmed when arrested so they may still be trying to locate the guns.

 

[William Parcher]

Reports say the guns were found near where he was arrested.

 

[Autolite]

Justin Bourque's guns...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrjNvMnnbzA

The guy in the video speaking on behalf of the RCMP is critical of how ineffective and lame their puny little 9mm pistols are when confronting someone with a big bad semi-automatic M305!

I'm not certain who we are suppose to be vilifying today. Is it the hand gun target shooters or the deer hunters???

 

[tyr_13]

I had initially suspected that the rifle was an FNC1A1, or an FN FAL variant, because I 'thought' I saw a wooden pistol grip. Border Reiver pointed out a few simple facts on post #25 that convinced me that it isn't an FN.

Other comments and media reports suggest that it is likely a semi-automatic 'Norinco M14' (M305*).

The police haven't yet commented if the guns were legally owned or not. I am wondering if they are waiting for the shock to subside a bit before the inevitable gun control argument gets into high gear again...

* (I've read that the M305 is a popular hunting rifle in Canada. If the gun used in this crime is in fact an M305 and the gun-grabbers decide to target this gun for a ban there's going to be a lot of kicking and screaming going on).

If it is an M305, then it's a case where the gun would be legal in Canada, and illegal in the US.

It would be doubly illegal in New York.

 

[casebro]

M305s are only illegal in the USA because they lack domestic components. Domestic makers are still making M-14 clones. And the military is even having them make actual M-14s with full auto capabilities. Spec Ops love them for desert warfare. Seems they've used up all the leftovers from the early 60s.